31–40 of 46 posts
Earlier quoted context omitted.
I understand completely. I'm here every day, reading and posting all the time. I do this nowhere else. No facebook, no friendfeed, no twitter, just this and email. Then I go to a cocktail party or happy hour and stand in the corner.
Why do you go to the party or bar? I don't attend such things.
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Somehow I feel comfortable here. Not sure why. I wouldn't have posted this anywhere else.
I understand completely. I'm here every day, reading and posting all the time. I do this nowhere else. No facebook, no friendfeed, no twitter, just this and email. Then I go to a cocktail party or happy hour and stand in the corner.
I had a very poignant moment when I started forwarding my Pitt email to gmail and realized it was the email address I was going to have for the rest of my life.
All this psychologizing about shyness: poor self-esteem, self-consciousness, withholding oneself from others out of selfishness, etc. My own shyness, and that of other shy people I know, has been due to something completely different, and much more straightforward: Not knowing the social conventions. What is it that people are doing at parties? What are they talking about? Why are they doing this? It seems incomprehe…
You seem to be framing the issue as a rational rather than emotional problem -- i.e., not knowing the social conventions. I don't buy it. Stick an extroverted people person and an introverted shy guy in an unfamiliar social situation (in a foreign country, say). The way they deal with it will differ greatly. The extrovert will plow ahead, not worry too much about making mistakes, and figure out how to play the social…
I think you made a very good point about the difference in the way extraverts and introverts enter new social situations. That really does make a huge difference: just dive in, mess up, and adjust (a lot like, say, running a start-up). That will get the learning process going. I think there's another element, though: that incomprehension of "lite" social interaction.
Regarding the courage hypothesis, here's how I've often heard it put: "Oh, don't be afraid, don't care what other people think, just say what you really want to say." To me, this misses what's happening. What's really happening is simply not having a clue how to participate. A dial tone on the brain. The reason, if I pick up a guitar, I don't play music, isn't because I'm afraid to, but because I don't know how to play guitar. I tried going to bars a bunch (I seem to have lots of social courage), but I didn't really get anywhere until some friends explained various social protocols: posture, how to make physical contact, how to pick out clothes, what to not talk about (decorators in Python, cryonics), etc.
Here's a weird piece of evidence: extraverts have exactly the same feeling of disorientation in our world. Get a strong extravert into a conversation that pursues something in depth (not so much breadth), and they get a dial tone on the brain, too. They quickly bail, the same way introverts bail out of social situations.
Hmm... mild autism. Maybe that's what I've got (and many other shy, geeky people). That's a new angle, and it might be right.
Another possibility: optimal stimulation level.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
You seem to be framing the issue as a rational rather than emotional problem -- i.e., not knowing the social conventions. I don't buy it. Stick an extroverted people person and an introverted shy guy in an unfamiliar social situation (in a foreign country, say). The way they deal with it will differ greatly. The extrovert will plow ahead, not worry too much about making mistakes, and figure out how to play the social…
Indeed I am framing this as a rational rather than emotional problem. I think you made a very good point about the difference in the way extraverts and introverts enter new social situations. That really does make a huge difference: just dive in, mess up, and adjust (a lot like, say, running a start-up). That will get the learning process going. I think there's another element, though: that incomprehension of "lite"…
All this psychologizing about shyness: poor self-esteem, self-consciousness, withholding oneself from others out of selfishness, etc. My own shyness, and that of other shy people I know, has been due to something completely different, and much more straightforward: Not knowing the social conventions. What is it that people are doing at parties? What are they talking about? Why are they doing this? It seems incomprehe…
You seem to be framing the issue as a rational rather than emotional problem -- i.e., not knowing the social conventions. I don't buy it. Stick an extroverted people person and an introverted shy guy in an unfamiliar social situation (in a foreign country, say). The way they deal with it will differ greatly. The extrovert will plow ahead, not worry too much about making mistakes, and figure out how to play the social…
1) ask open ended questions
2) speak in the 'I' perspective... none of the "you know how it is when you do this"... "when I did this..."
3) take an interest in the other person; I made a goal to find out something special about the person in every conversation with someone new; taking an interest in the other person completely ignoring myself really made a difference.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why do you go to the party or bar? I don't attend such things.
I don't. I go to events (usually business related) that I've been invited to. The more geeks in the room, the more comfortable I feel. The more MBAs, the less.
Suits are what make me uncomfortable. Any events that encourage wearing of clothes that require dry cleaning, formalities, pretentious things of that nature are right up there.
Thus says the MBA geek: It's actually possible to have an MBA and to still be a geek. It's not a cure-all or indication of social aptness. I don't know why some people insist upon their stereotypes about that particular degree of education.
I had been shy as a teen and got over it. But since my last girlfriend left around a year ago (my first serious relationship), I've been thrown back into the breach. I had forgotten how diabolical this torment was, actually. Inability to connect with any other person. No interest in meeting new people, despite a persistent, stinging loneliness. It's really fascinating to revisit this state as an adult. And painful.
"persistent, stinging loneliness" I vividly remember that phase of my life. I would not want to live it again. It was a combination of shyness, geekiness, being a foreigner in a new land and persistent rejection arising out of the first 3. In hindsight, the big mistake I made was to try to fish in over-fished waters (typical engineering graduate school, where every female has numerous suitors). There exist overstocke…
If you are depressed and have difficulty connecting, focus on yourself. Go play soccer, join critical mass, go climbing, do something you enjoy (keyboards forbidden, testosterone encouraged). Take on a satisfying project at work (though not so big it overwhelms your life). Find male friends, ignore women for now. The goal is to solve your problems, and women can't do that.
* Be your true self
* Practice socializing everywhere you are
* Don't care what other people think