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California, Oregon and Washington announce western states pact

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Re: California, Oregon and Washington announce western states pact

#31

Post by mjcl »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #15

As someone who lives in one of these states, I'm nonplussed at the announcement. It doesn't really seem to say anything concrete that I can tell. "We've agreed that we will use metrics...we are still deciding what these metrics will be." I thought the Stay Home, Stay Healthy order (in Washington state) wasn't unreasonable and wasn't just political babble, but I don't really know what to make of this piece. Anyone wan…

I think this is a polite way of these states saying that they're not going to follow any 'national plan to reopen the economy' put out by the White House.

Re: California, Oregon and Washington announce western states pact

#32

Post by [deleted] »

new_time wrote: post #20

I love the United States' flexible decentralized model. Different states have sufficient autonomy to tinker and try different approaches, allowing the best ideas to emerge from the collective. It's one reason why the US is such a dynamic place, similar to Europe but with the additional benefit of unified language, culture (broadly), economy, and high level regulations. It's truly a great system.

[deleted]

Re: California, Oregon and Washington announce western states pact

#33

Post by zachkatz »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #15

As someone who lives in one of these states, I'm nonplussed at the announcement. It doesn't really seem to say anything concrete that I can tell. "We've agreed that we will use metrics...we are still deciding what these metrics will be." I thought the Stay Home, Stay Healthy order (in Washington state) wasn't unreasonable and wasn't just political babble, but I don't really know what to make of this piece. Anyone wan…

My ELI5 interpretation: “Since good leadership is probably not going to come from the President, we’re going to create our own “mini-country” and provide good leadership within it.”

Re: California, Oregon and Washington announce western states pact

#34

Post by yingw787 »

jcranmer wrote: post #19

Also relevant is that the states of New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Connecticut, Rhode Island, and Delaware made a similar pact today. Edit: Massachusetts has also joined this pact as well (I thought it was surprising that it hadn't when I first read the news).

No Vermont, Maine, New Hampshire, Massachusetts? I would think at least Massachusetts would want in.

Re: California, Oregon and Washington announce western states pact

#35

Post by erdos4d »

Loughla wrote: post #10
jlj wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's really someone who wants to own the success of others and blame others for failures. Zero accountability yet still wanting to call the shots.

It's wild watching someone who seems to just be a garbage manager be in charge of something as large as the nation. Micromanaging. Manage via publicity. PR instead of content. Agreement instead of actual thought and discussion. I've left jobs over a combination of two of those things, and it seems like we have all of them right now as a nation. I wish someone who has direct reported to Trump in the past was on this s…

I'm not the person you're looking for on that, but I have read a number of pieces by people who have been there and experienced it. In those articles, the word "gaslighting" appeared enough to prominenetly stick in my brain.

Re: California, Oregon and Washington announce western states pact

#36

Post by paulstovell »

mullingitover wrote: post #14

This is great, and it's a big chunk of population, but I keep feeling like we could do better. For example, these three States could do a great job, but there's nothing stopping a bunch of the other States from bungling it (like, say, ignoring health experts and exempting certain groups from mass gathering restrictions). Then those States end up exporting infectious individuals into the States which are doing things…

Perhaps it allows them to begin to open borders between each other, but keep borders to other states closed? If those three states' economies are very interlinked it might let them get closer to normality.

Legally, is this possible in the US?

In Australia for example each state has closed or is controlling their borders with each other, and this seems to largely be a decision for each state (I don't think there's a federal law either way). I could imagine some states choosing to open up while others remain closed. Or if two states made big sacrifices but got the issue under control, while the others lagged behind, those two could open borders between themselves while remaining closed outside.

Re: California, Oregon and Washington announce western states pact

#37

Post by imustbeevil »

davidw wrote: post #16
mullingitover wrote: post #14

This is great, and it's a big chunk of population, but I keep feeling like we could do better. For example, these three States could do a great job, but there's nothing stopping a bunch of the other States from bungling it (like, say, ignoring health experts and exempting certain groups from mass gathering restrictions). Then those States end up exporting infectious individuals into the States which are doing things…

"Like having a pool with a 'peeing section'" is how I've read this piecemeal approach described.

I imagine it more like 3 people standing in the furthest corner from the person peeing because the lifeguard isn't enforcing any rules except "no one can leave the pool".

Re: California, Oregon and Washington announce western states pact

#38

Post by RandomTisk »

danhak wrote: post #26
throwaway_USD wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironically Trump refused to "shutdown" the States a decision he deferred to the Governors.

Yes, he wanted to dodge responsibility for the unpleasant job of shutting things down. Now he wants to enjoy positive publicity for opening things back up.

He wanted to shut down travel from China in January, something he got reamed for politically by the media and the left. Damned if you do and all that.

Re: California, Oregon and Washington announce western states pact

#39

Post by jcranmer »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #15

As someone who lives in one of these states, I'm nonplussed at the announcement. It doesn't really seem to say anything concrete that I can tell. "We've agreed that we will use metrics...we are still deciding what these metrics will be." I thought the Stay Home, Stay Healthy order (in Washington state) wasn't unreasonable and wasn't just political babble, but I don't really know what to make of this piece. Anyone wan…

The context here is that Trump said earlier today that he was in charge of when to "open up the states."

This (along with the NE pact) is probably a big "no, you're not" to Trump.

Re: California, Oregon and Washington announce western states pact

#40

Post by spankalee »

yingw787 wrote: post #23

Well, that was quick. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22828354 Today it is pandemic resolution. I fear that tomorrow, it might be economic ties, lockstep voting at the federal level, and National Guard drills, deployments, and contingency planning, where the West Coast slowly splits away from the rest of the country, with other states teaming up and following suit. This isn't the end, and it's the only appropria…

> I fear that tomorrow

Why fear? This is my dream!

The Senate is irreparably broken. There is no conceivable way that it can become more fairly representative of the people without a breakup of the United States. The smaller less populous states aren't going to just give up their outsized power voluntarily.

California is suffering the most due to the Senate's structural unfairness, and it has the most to gain from succession. I hope it happens in my lifetime.

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