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TikTok: Cheerfulness and censorship

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Re: TikTok: Cheerfulness and censorship

#31

Post by fzeroracer »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #24
thisone wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ferrets seems to be having a good time on tiktok at the moment. So cute and so wholesome. Not political right? Ferrets are a weirdly political issue in some areas of the USA. It's pretty hard to have anything be politics free when the world we live in is political

> Ferrets are a weirdly political issue in some areas of the USA. They're not political except for a select group people who want to make it political. They should not be encouraged or appreciated for trying to push that outlook on others.

I mean, that's literally how politics work. Something isn't political unless people make it political, otherwise it's just the norm of the time.

You could replace [ferrets are] with [gay marriage is] and get the description for any political argument ever. People argue X is political, others argue it isn't political and create a political argument trying to argue it is/is not political. Repeat as nauseam for topic of your choice.

Re: TikTok: Cheerfulness and censorship

#32

Post by CriticalCathed »

simion314 wrote: post #23
TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no such thing as a politics-free network, only one that only allows politics you agree with.

Why do you think so, I am thinking for example of some on topic subreddits like r/DaystromInstitute , any post that would try to go offtopic and politicise stuff will be removed. As a non US citizen it is a breath of fresh air not to have all topics devolve into republicans vs democrats. IMO if you have rules that current politics is off topic and moderators that can enforce the rules, a community that respects the r…

I believe the idea underlying what he said is that everything is political. If I am wrong I apologize. It's an extension of the 1960s revolution of "the personal is political."

To expound: everything is political in the sense that any action we take or decision we make or conclusion we reach rests on assumptions, norms, and values not everyone would affirm. That is, everything we do is rooted in a contestable point of origin; and since the realm of the contestable is the realm of politics, everything is political.

Re: TikTok: Cheerfulness and censorship

#34

Post by oefrha »

fzeroracer wrote: post #26
oefrha wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not true. For instance it’s pretty easy to create a programming language forum that bans all off-topic content, including identity politics in programming, workplace politics, etc. Unless you believe in the bullshit that is the absence of X == automatically siding what whatever X considers its opponent (usually “the establishment” or “the status quo”) at that moment in time.

So let's say you have a forum that completely bans all off-topic discussion. What happens when a prominent user experiences something negative? Like for example they die, or face harassment from people either inside or outside the community. Do you ban them for breaking the cardinal rule, or allow your forum to become political? It's not at all easy to create a forum that bans all off topic discussion. I've ran small…

I’ve been in a managing position of a small forum (around a hundred active members at a time, plus a few thousand lurking members) before. We remove off-topic content but don’t kick anyone other than spammers and outright trolls. There have been some cases of conflict; they were handled privately. Public complaints are not allowed (see “we remove off-topic content”). Members may complain to admins and admins may talk to both sides, but since we don’t kick anyone, the most dire consequences (from us) are that one or both parties get a temp ban from a day to a week if they keep posting complaints or arguing publicly. Most conflicts go away eventually; a few members may have left due to conflicts, but that’s okay, they just blend into the organic churn.

> they die, or face harassment from people either inside or outside the community.

I fail to see why some online admins can stop any of these.

Re: TikTok: Cheerfulness and censorship

#35

Post by fzeroracer »

oefrha wrote: post #34
fzeroracer wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So let's say you have a forum that completely bans all off-topic discussion. What happens when a prominent user experiences something negative? Like for example they die, or face harassment from people either inside or outside the community. Do you ban them for breaking the cardinal rule, or allow your forum to become political? It's not at all easy to create a forum that bans all off topic discussion. I've ran small…

I’ve been in a managing position of a small forum (around a hundred active members at a time, plus a few thousand lurking members) before. We remove off-topic content but don’t kick anyone other than spammers and outright trolls. There have been some cases of conflict; they were handled privately. Public complaints are not allowed (see “we remove off-topic content”). Members may complain to admins and admins may talk…

Right and what you've just admitted is that said forum is indeed political. The moderation and admin style is selecting users that best fit into the forum culture. Users leave as a result of either typical churn or because they don't align well with the forum.

Every single forum is going to grow a culture around it consisting of memes, ways of talking, interacting with others etc which are all very political in nature. The fact that you've seen conflicts and have had to resolve them is proof of this. It's just human nature and fits the very definition of politics.

Re: TikTok: Cheerfulness and censorship

#36

Post by hamhand »

oefrha wrote: post #13

I fail to see why every platform has to become a fucking idealogical battleground. If I’m in the market for a social network myself (HN notwithstanding) I’d probably choose a politics-free one if possible.

It's ultimately the war on the definition of free speech.

Re: TikTok: Cheerfulness and censorship

#37

Post by flomble »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #30
TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no such thing as a politics-free network, only one that only allows politics you agree with.

The "there's no such thing as apolitical, apolitical = supporting status quo" meme needs to die. It's just a slightly smarter-sounding variant of "if you're not with us, you're against us". It purposefully conflates two groups of people - people who don't engage with an issue because they like the status quo, and people who don't engage with an issue because (within reasonable bounds) they don't care which side wins.…

I think the problem here is that you're not seeing that 'politics' encompasses an incredibly broad spectrum of things, and the only time that something is labeled 'political' is when it reaches a certain level of controversial for the relevant society.

For example, selling a hamburger would have been an obviously political act in the Soviet Union. We don't see it as such because vanishingly few people believe that commercial transactions between private parties should be forbidden. But whenever someone advertises a hamburger, depicts the purchase of one, or leaves a review of one on a website, they are engaging in an act that we only view as apolitical because of the status quo that we inhabit.

Re: TikTok: Cheerfulness and censorship

#38

Post by oefrha »

fzeroracer wrote: post #35
oefrha wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve been in a managing position of a small forum (around a hundred active members at a time, plus a few thousand lurking members) before. We remove off-topic content but don’t kick anyone other than spammers and outright trolls. There have been some cases of conflict; they were handled privately. Public complaints are not allowed (see “we remove off-topic content”). Members may complain to admins and admins may talk…

Right and what you've just admitted is that said forum is indeed political. The moderation and admin style is selecting users that best fit into the forum culture. Users leave as a result of either typical churn or because they don't align well with the forum. Every single forum is going to grow a culture around it consisting of memes, ways of talking, interacting with others etc which are all very political in natur…

> selecting users that best fit into the forum culture.

Yeah, we select users who can stay on topic and who can contain anger and resolve conflicts like adults (or rather, like decent human beings; we did have teenage users). Not a tough ask, and neither outrageous nor outlandish for a topical forum.

Re: TikTok: Cheerfulness and censorship

#39

Post by _akei »

oefrha wrote: post #13

I fail to see why every platform has to become a fucking idealogical battleground. If I’m in the market for a social network myself (HN notwithstanding) I’d probably choose a politics-free one if possible.

Did you just call Hacker News apolitical? I feel even Reddit is better when coming to political debates because on Reddit you can find a subreddit that aligns to your political ideology.

On HN, if you are from China, India, Russia, African country, the best thing you can do is to avoid articles about those geographical locations because comments will be mostly negative and any dissenting view will be downvoted until it becomes unreadable. It doesn’t matter if the view was free from strong language, it will be treated like it contains strong language.

At least on Reddit you can find a subreddit that aligns with your political and ideological views. Unlike here where you have to understand that your political views will be suppressed if it doesn’t align to the majority.

Every social network has a political agenda. If you don’t notice that agenda, know that it is because it aligns with your own political agenda.

Re: TikTok: Cheerfulness and censorship

#40

Post by nabla9 »

pgeorgi wrote: post #4

Their approach to moderation is unusual in that they don't even pretend to be a neutral platform and as such it's a powerful differentiator to businesses that are rooted in a "free speech" culture. Shadow-banning individual posts ("Visible to self") is relatively unusual and acts as a demotivator to publish controversial content because such content doesn't drive engagement, as is actively demoting entire classes of…

TikTok's genius is that they bring the TV-mentality to social media. For you feature is like 60 second TV channel of moderated content.

Free people from choice and enable passivity, but provide them short social interaction. Less stress, more fun.

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