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Why Are Canadian Construction Costs So High? (2018)

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Re: Why Are Canadian Construction Costs So High? (2018)

#31

Post by charrondev »

kps wrote: post #30
charrondev wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Montrealer here. Constant construction of everything is the norm. The roadways are a nightmare of poor construction and tons of detours. The thing that bugs me the most is that they can’t seem to get the hang of painting lines properly on the roads. Lines painted last 2 months at most, then are gone. I was driving this weekend on 3-4 land highways, that curve around corners and have no lines painted. Luckily our publ…

> Lines painted last 2 months at most, then are gone. This is due to federal environmental standards; the old oil paints that actually worked are banned.

I actually wasn’t aware of this. I was wondering why there wasn’t a better alternative, but it seems there are environmentally friendly paints more durable than what is in use in Montreal.

It’s just more expensive.

I don’t really understand how that can be the blocker in a city with strong economic activity, high income taxes, high fuel taxes, and high property taxes (>4% in our downtown core on non-residential properties).

Re: Why Are Canadian Construction Costs So High? (2018)

#32

Post by LegitShady »

larnmar wrote: post #7

In any market, there’ll be a limited number of contractors capable of doing a really big job like building a railway line (or constructing an aircraft carrier, or a fighter jet, or whatever). These contractors have a game theoretic choice to make: either they work hard to compete on price, or they inflate their budgets and count on their competitors to do so too, safe in the knowledge that there’s enoigh projects goi…

there are lots of companies that know how to build rail, and most use subs that can be hired by anyone rather than owning all that labour and risk themselves.

Comparing rail lines to aircraft carriers is ridiculous and discredits your entire post.

If everyone inflates their price the one who inflates it the least wins. That's not how the industry actually works. its far more common to bid low and try to make up the profit in claims.

You know nothing about this industry and its obvious from your writing.

Re: Why Are Canadian Construction Costs So High? (2018)

#33

Post by markus_zhang »

thbr99 wrote: post #9
markus_zhang wrote: post #3

If you want some fun, read the investigation reports about the corruption surrounding construction business and politicians in Montreal, QC. Not sure which year it was, could be 2015.

Montreal has a never ending construction. A colleague of mine says the mafia controls the construction business in Montreal. Seems like corruption is a tad high in Québec than Rest of Canada

Yeah the construction is pretty much in the families. The report explicitly shows how they deter others from bidding for contracts. First an engineer from the government who oversees the project will make a phone call to tell you that the contract has been already given to someone else so please withdraw your body which of course has a lower price. If you don't then some guys will throw garbage at your door. I'm not sure what's the next step.

Re: Why Are Canadian Construction Costs So High? (2018)

#34

Post by altShiftDev »

adventured wrote: post #22
georgeburdell wrote: post #18

Still lower than the U.S. I went to a couple of cities in Canada in the past year and there's construction everywhere, from skyscrapers to roads. My corner of the Bay Area has a couple of 5-story apartment complexes going up.

> Still lower than the U.S. I went to a couple of cities in Canada in the past year and there's construction everywhere, from skyscrapers to roads NYC has had skyscrapers going up left and right the past decade: Central Park, 111 West 57, One Vanderbilt, 432 Park, 30 Hudson, 3 World Trade, 53W53, 35 Hudson, One57, 1 Manhattan, 220 Central Park South, 15 Hudson, 125 Greewich, 425 Park, etc. All of those are taller or…

You name dropping one of the largest and most urbanized cities in the world proves what?

Re: Why Are Canadian Construction Costs So High? (2018)

#35

Post by Retric »

eru wrote: post #20
Retric wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s fallen significantly: https://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2017/article/estimating-the-us-... However, in the late 20th century—after many decades of relative stability—the labor share began to decline in the United States and many other economically advanced nations, and in the early 21st century it fell to unprecedented lows. PS: In terms of overall GDP a numbers (edit: not real data) 21% vs 17% may seem more or less…

Where does the 21% vs 17% come from? The graphs in that article seem to hover around 56% to 66% for the labour share since 1947. What am I missing? But looking at the graphs, there seems to have indeed been a big drop in the labour share since the dot com boom. If I remember right, the capital share has been stable. But the share going to real estate has exploded. And that's likely for the same underlying reasons con…

Sorry, the context was missing. The 21% vs 17% was not meant to be representative of overall numbers. I just recall someone minimizing the impact by referring to some income bracket then comparing it to GDP. My point was simply people overestimate how much per capita GDP is growing, so numbers that look similar can represent large shifts.

Anyway, it’s 1AM so I am a little out of it.

Re: Why Are Canadian Construction Costs So High? (2018)

#36

Post by corporate_shi11 »

altShiftDev wrote: post #34
adventured wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Still lower than the U.S. I went to a couple of cities in Canada in the past year and there's construction everywhere, from skyscrapers to roads NYC has had skyscrapers going up left and right the past decade: Central Park, 111 West 57, One Vanderbilt, 432 Park, 30 Hudson, 3 World Trade, 53W53, 35 Hudson, One57, 1 Manhattan, 220 Central Park South, 15 Hudson, 125 Greewich, 425 Park, etc. All of those are taller or…

You name dropping one of the largest and most urbanized cities in the world proves what?

The comment he was responding to is anecdotal. They were responding anecdotally in kind.

Re: Why Are Canadian Construction Costs So High? (2018)

#37

Post by cylinder »

Magi604 wrote: post #25
moltar wrote: post #17

As I can see from living in Canada and travelling the world there can be several reasons: - corruption, especially in QC - over-the-top safety requirements, regardless of project size. E.g. in Toronto every road work sight has a police officer present who’s just standing there bored out of their mind. In Montreal it’d be two persons on each side holding a flag - a job in Europe replaced by a temporary semaphore. - la…

Over-the-top safety requirements are spot on I think. Here in BC Worksafe BC just constantly adds on new rules and regulations every year, and they don't care about your company's budget or productivity. I know Worksafe programs are similar from province to province, so I would be curious to see a comparison of Canadian Worksafe safety standards to safety standards from around the world to see just how much more (or…

Well if we can't afford to build things without killing people, we shouldn't be building things. Construction safety rules act as a check on liberal capitalism's growth obsession.

Re: Why Are Canadian Construction Costs So High? (2018)

#38

Post by [deleted] »

cylinder wrote: post #37
Magi604 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Over-the-top safety requirements are spot on I think. Here in BC Worksafe BC just constantly adds on new rules and regulations every year, and they don't care about your company's budget or productivity. I know Worksafe programs are similar from province to province, so I would be curious to see a comparison of Canadian Worksafe safety standards to safety standards from around the world to see just how much more (or…

Well if we can't afford to build things without killing people, we shouldn't be building things. Construction safety rules act as a check on liberal capitalism's growth obsession.

[deleted]

Re: Why Are Canadian Construction Costs So High? (2018)

#39

Post by refurb »

kps wrote: post #27
moltar wrote: post #17

As I can see from living in Canada and travelling the world there can be several reasons: - corruption, especially in QC - over-the-top safety requirements, regardless of project size. E.g. in Toronto every road work sight has a police officer present who’s just standing there bored out of their mind. In Montreal it’d be two persons on each side holding a flag - a job in Europe replaced by a temporary semaphore. - la…

> - corruption, especially in QC Québec had an inquiry¹ and found large-scale systematic corruption. Other provinces… haven't looked. ¹ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charbonneau_Commission

A very interesting article I read (can be found with a google search) was an in-depth look at the corruption with snowplow contracts. People were getting beat up and were greasing politicians palms to get these lucrative contracts in Quebec.

How very Canadian!

Re: Why Are Canadian Construction Costs So High? (2018)

#40

Post by refurb »

cylinder wrote: post #37
Magi604 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Over-the-top safety requirements are spot on I think. Here in BC Worksafe BC just constantly adds on new rules and regulations every year, and they don't care about your company's budget or productivity. I know Worksafe programs are similar from province to province, so I would be curious to see a comparison of Canadian Worksafe safety standards to safety standards from around the world to see just how much more (or…

Well if we can't afford to build things without killing people, we shouldn't be building things. Construction safety rules act as a check on liberal capitalism's growth obsession.

You’re assuming new rules and regulations actually prevent injury and death. That isn’t necessarily so.
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