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Why Are Canadian Construction Costs So High? (2018)

pedestrianobservations.com

21–30 of 146 posts

Re: Why Are Canadian Construction Costs So High? (2018)

#21
Design, land, environmental permitting and remediation, noise and dust remediation, aboriginal/metis consultation, utility components on LRT/subway projects can span years and costs millions of dollars per utility and a given kilometer may have 100. and then you have to actually build whatever it is.

Just doesn't seem like an analysis with enough detail.

Re: Why Are Canadian Construction Costs So High? (2018)

#22

Still lower than the U.S. I went to a couple of cities in Canada in the past year and there's construction everywhere, from skyscrapers to roads. My corner of the Bay Area has a couple of 5-story apartment complexes going up.

> Still lower than the U.S. I went to a couple of cities in Canada in the past year and there's construction everywhere, from skyscrapers to roads

NYC has had skyscrapers going up left and right the past decade: Central Park, 111 West 57, One Vanderbilt, 432 Park, 30 Hudson, 3 World Trade, 53W53, 35 Hudson, One57, 1 Manhattan, 220 Central Park South, 15 Hudson, 125 Greewich, 425 Park, etc.

All of those are taller or nearly as tall as the tallest buildings in all of Canada. In one US city. What does that prove?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tallest_buildings_in_C...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tallest_buildings_in_N...

Re: Why Are Canadian Construction Costs So High? (2018)

#23
post #11
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Montreal has a never ending construction. A colleague of mine says the mafia controls the construction business in Montreal. Seems like corruption is a tad high in Québec than Rest of Canada

This may be indeed true. Some say the construction is the fault of the city being old but I’ve seen the same street being worked on throughout the summer for two consecutive years. There is construction everywhere as well compared to other cities I’ve visited.

Montrealer here. Constant construction of everything is the norm.

The roadways are a nightmare of poor construction and tons of detours.

The thing that bugs me the most is that they can’t seem to get the hang of painting lines properly on the roads. Lines painted last 2 months at most, then are gone. I was driving this weekend on 3-4 land highways, that curve around corners and have no lines painted.

Luckily our public transit is decent so I don’t normally have to drive.

Re: Why Are Canadian Construction Costs So High? (2018)

#24
In addition to the others reasons meantioned by others: NIMBYism, political projects, and suboptimal planning. Toronto has a whole subway line going through low density neighborhoods and it’s not like any densification plans are happening there soon. On the other hand Liberty Village was given to hi-rise developers because it was a wedge of industrial land squished between railway and a highway. Now it is a bustling neighborhood but pretty problematic to get in it out with the overloaded streetcar line bearing the brunt.

It is not only about upfront costs, ongoing maintenance is important as well, and one needs certain level of density for the infrastructure to be a bit closer to self-sustainable

Re: Why Are Canadian Construction Costs So High? (2018)

#25
post #17

As I can see from living in Canada and travelling the world there can be several reasons: - corruption, especially in QC - over-the-top safety requirements, regardless of project size. E.g. in Toronto every road work sight has a police officer present who’s just standing there bored out of their mind. In Montreal it’d be two persons on each side holding a flag - a job in Europe replaced by a temporary semaphore. - la…

Over-the-top safety requirements are spot on I think. Here in BC Worksafe BC just constantly adds on new rules and regulations every year, and they don't care about your company's budget or productivity.

I know Worksafe programs are similar from province to province, so I would be curious to see a comparison of Canadian Worksafe safety standards to safety standards from around the world to see just how much more (or less?) onerous they are.

Re: Why Are Canadian Construction Costs So High? (2018)

#26
post #11
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Montreal has a never ending construction. A colleague of mine says the mafia controls the construction business in Montreal. Seems like corruption is a tad high in Québec than Rest of Canada

This may be indeed true. Some say the construction is the fault of the city being old but I’ve seen the same street being worked on throughout the summer for two consecutive years. There is construction everywhere as well compared to other cities I’ve visited.

Autoroute 20 has been under construction/repair since the 90s. Specifically the section between lachine towards decarie.

Re: Why Are Canadian Construction Costs So High? (2018)

#27
post #17

As I can see from living in Canada and travelling the world there can be several reasons: - corruption, especially in QC - over-the-top safety requirements, regardless of project size. E.g. in Toronto every road work sight has a police officer present who’s just standing there bored out of their mind. In Montreal it’d be two persons on each side holding a flag - a job in Europe replaced by a temporary semaphore. - la…

> - corruption, especially in QC

Québec had an inquiry¹ and found large-scale systematic corruption. Other provinces… haven't looked.

¹ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charbonneau_Commission

Re: Why Are Canadian Construction Costs So High? (2018)

#28
Here is a theory.

Builders chargé maximum what they can.

Home prizes has increased rapidly in Canada, some say possibly to a bubble level.

Banks create new debt out of nothing through fractional reserve banking. Central banks support negative interest rates.

A conseque of low interest rates is that many can afford to borrow to high real estate prices.

The high real estate prices drive up building costs, since builders can charge higher prices. Ie want a piece of the cake.

Re: Why Are Canadian Construction Costs So High? (2018)

#29
post #28

Here is a theory. Builders chargé maximum what they can. Home prizes has increased rapidly in Canada, some say possibly to a bubble level. Banks create new debt out of nothing through fractional reserve banking. Central banks support negative interest rates. A conseque of low interest rates is that many can afford to borrow to high real estate prices. The high real estate prices drive up building costs, since builder…

Well, that could drive up the cost of land, sure. But how can it drive up construction costs too much? Competition must fill that gap quickly.

Re: Why Are Canadian Construction Costs So High? (2018)

#30
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This may be indeed true. Some say the construction is the fault of the city being old but I’ve seen the same street being worked on throughout the summer for two consecutive years. There is construction everywhere as well compared to other cities I’ve visited.

Montrealer here. Constant construction of everything is the norm. The roadways are a nightmare of poor construction and tons of detours. The thing that bugs me the most is that they can’t seem to get the hang of painting lines properly on the roads. Lines painted last 2 months at most, then are gone. I was driving this weekend on 3-4 land highways, that curve around corners and have no lines painted. Luckily our publ…

> Lines painted last 2 months at most, then are gone.

This is due to federal environmental standards; the old oil paints that actually worked are banned.

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