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Notes of a native tiger son: it's a weird time to be Asian-American

theatlantic.com

31–40 of 58 posts

Re: Notes of a native tiger son: it's a weird time to be Asian-American

#31
post #23
post #6

This observation hit me like a two-by-four: "The Immigration Act of 1965... created preference categories for science, math and engineering-trained immigrants to come over. [Asian countries] were producing a surplus of college-educated adults but lacked a sufficiently developed domestic economy to adequately absorb them. The 1965 Immigration Act, in trying to bolster America's own domestic needs, inadvertently helped…

I'm pretty sure I know what you're getting at, but do you mind expounding on your thoughts previous to discovering this information?

Previously, my somewhat-nebulous thoughts on this were: there's definitely a math/sci stereotype about Asians; don't read too much into stereotypes; but Asians really are disproportionately represented among the math/sci fields; what on earth would explain it if not a genetic and/or cultural bias? >cognitive dissonanceAs I said, nebulous; I hadn't really pursued the line of thought very far, just tangentially as it came up elsewhere. I hadn't known about the 1965 Act, and its existence and the above analysis just instantly explained so much so well and without reference to Asians somehow being magically different; just that the math/sci trait had been selected for within the Asian-American population.

Not that it rules out other explanations. But it's so blindingly obvious (in retrospect :) that the Act would have some effect along these lines, that Occam's Razor raises the bar for other explanations by a lot.

Re: Notes of a native tiger son: it's a weird time to be Asian-American

#32
post #9

This piece definitely hit home for me, a 2nd generation Asian American. As a kid in the 90s, I remember talking to an older friend about future career advice. I mentioned acting or dancing as possible paths for Asian Americans. He scoffed, telling me that the only place for Asians in American pop culture was in martial art films. Out of all the memories, that particular conversation stuck with me for years. My father…

Sharply focusing on math and science, and then aiming to get into an "old" profession like being a doctor or lawyer, prevents the child from ever exploring or even considering other possibilities.

That's exactly the point. They fear that their children will pursue one of those other possibilities the way you or I would fear our children becoming drug addicts. I don't think it's restricted to East Asians; it seems consistent among recent immigrants. I mentioned to a friend from Iran that I had high LSAT scores and could have gone to law school -- I didn't even say a good law school -- and she was astonished. To her, the higher income and prestige of being a lawyer was decisive; it was bizarre that I chose a lower-paid path that resulted in me existing beneath lawyers in the social pecking order. How could I choose to make less money, live in a smaller house in a less posh neighborhood, drive a cheaper car, and go on less lavish vacations?

High-paid professions with stable demand and high, meritocratic barriers to entry are ideal vehicles for recent immigrants, whether they want to ensure their class (if they come from an upper class in a society where falling out of the upper class is catastrophic) or their financial security (if they come from a country where economic existence is precarious and subject to great disruptions.)

Upper-middle-class Americans are a little weird in that we are just as obsessed with class as anyone else, yet we often subordinate class to lifestyle factors when choosing a career. In fact, unlike upper-class, lower-class, or most other middle-class Americans, we are stuck in a kind of catch-22 where it is considered gauche to show concern for maintaining or improving our class status. We also sacrifice security, but I don't think it is conscious: we just can't viscerally comprehend economic insecurity. To my friend, I shrugged and said, "I wouldn't have enjoyed being a lawyer. I might as well choose a career I enjoy. After all, no one is starving." I never had any artistic or musical interests, so my blasé attitude toward class was never tested by the prospect of a sub-middle-class career, but I never questioned it when it came to opportunities to move up. Doctor, lawyer, meh, doesn't sound fun. That attitude horrifies many immigrant parents.

Re: Notes of a native tiger son: it's a weird time to be Asian-American

#33

The author points out something he may not have even intended: that parenting might not matter at all, despite the raging discussions about which parenting style is better. In fact, lots of research on twins and adopted children suggests that parenting matters very little in shaping a child's personality and skills, while biology and peer groups matter a lot. Identical twins turn out quite similar regardless of wheth…

This is an argument that is hard to convey convincingly in a comment, but for those who are curious (including those who call "BS"), I recommend reading:

_The Blank Slate_ by Steven Pinker

Re: Notes of a native tiger son: it's a weird time to be Asian-American

#34
post #31
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure I know what you're getting at, but do you mind expounding on your thoughts previous to discovering this information?

Previously, my somewhat-nebulous thoughts on this were: there's definitely a math/sci stereotype about Asians; don't read too much into stereotypes; but Asians really are disproportionately represented among the math/sci fields; what on earth would explain it if not a genetic and/or cultural bias? >cognitive dissonance As I said, nebulous ; I hadn't really pursued the line of thought very far, just tangentially as it…

As an exercise, you might want to try to think of why other Asian American stereotypes exist, and how they may/may not apply to 2 billion+ people in Asia.

Re: Notes of a native tiger son: it's a weird time to be Asian-American

#35
post #27

Anybody want to weigh in on why Asians give their kids Western first names in the US? Why don't they use Chinese first names? Why don't they change their last names also? Serious question.

Several reasons: - a lot of Asian families are Christian, so they get Christian names - racism and discrimination. "li guo" just isn't as cool as "pierre" - there's no real great way to spell a lot of Asian names, so might as well just adopt a Western name - many Asian children have an Asian name and a Westerner name. Both are valid aliases for the person.

Racism is not an issue here, since the last name is still Asian, I guess.

A friend of mine from China said the main reason is that some Chinese names are hard to pronounce for an English-speaker. Also other Asian nations (Indians, for examle) seem to leave their names as is, and also give Indian names to kids, I am just wondering, is it something Chinese specific?

Re: Notes of a native tiger son: it's a weird time to be Asian-American

#37
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Several reasons: - a lot of Asian families are Christian, so they get Christian names - racism and discrimination. "li guo" just isn't as cool as "pierre" - there's no real great way to spell a lot of Asian names, so might as well just adopt a Western name - many Asian children have an Asian name and a Westerner name. Both are valid aliases for the person.

Racism is not an issue here, since the last name is still Asian, I guess. A friend of mine from China said the main reason is that some Chinese names are hard to pronounce for an English-speaker. Also other Asian nations (Indians, for examle) seem to leave their names as is, and also give Indian names to kids, I am just wondering, is it something Chinese specific?

Racism isn't the issue - discrimination is.

"Richard Kim" means I grew up in America and will have no problem talking to you.

"Han Yong Kim" means you're going to have trouble communicating with me in the workplace.

Re: Notes of a native tiger son: it's a weird time to be Asian-American

#38
post #31
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure I know what you're getting at, but do you mind expounding on your thoughts previous to discovering this information?

Previously, my somewhat-nebulous thoughts on this were: there's definitely a math/sci stereotype about Asians; don't read too much into stereotypes; but Asians really are disproportionately represented among the math/sci fields; what on earth would explain it if not a genetic and/or cultural bias? >cognitive dissonance As I said, nebulous ; I hadn't really pursued the line of thought very far, just tangentially as it…

yes. as a first gen azn who moved over at the age of 5 (read: 2nd gen), there are certainly a much more rounded pool of non academics in asia...

Re: Notes of a native tiger son: it's a weird time to be Asian-American

#39
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The amount of presumption that I have to deal with from strangers on a regular basis " Seriously? Where the hell do you live, Georgia? But, I suppose being white I don't see it. And that psycho-sexual thing is called a "rice queen." Uh, fyi, I guess.

Seriously? Where the hell do you live, Georgia? My last 3 cities: Houston, Cincinnati, Columbia SC.

[deleted]

Re: Notes of a native tiger son: it's a weird time to be Asian-American

#40
post #21

I've thought a lot about this subject. I have come to conclusion that asian parents hating comes from internalized self-hatred of being yellow and yet at the same, being unable to express one's Asian values in a Western society. Almost everything against the Asian parents are against how their values are different from typical "American" parents: strict vs. lenient, off-putting vs. dotting. "I have to sit at home doi…

I don't hate Asian values because I wish I were whiter. I have a problem with my parents giving me extra math problems to do that were way beyond my grade level, and then telling me they were surprised that they'd never seen any girl where the harder she tried, the worse she did. They were assholes who reduced me to a good GPA and nothing more. Think a little bit harder about why so many Asians don't like their paren…

This is a genuine question - do asian american guys remind you of your parents?
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