The "Machiavellian Reality" -- speech by Robert Greene • Hacker News Board

Re: The "Machiavellian Reality" -- speech by Robert Greene

#31

Post by Gilpo » Wed, Jan 12, 2011, 8:26 PM UTC

If you haven't read Greene's Yale Speech " rel="nofollow">http://www.powerseductionandwar.com/archives/robert_greene_y..., it's worth it.

"There are three types of people in this world in dealing with this social reality. There are, what I call, the deniers, the people who deny this reality exists. They almost want to pretend that we are descended from angels and not from primates."

"Among these deniers, you will find two types. You will find people who are genuinely disturbed by the politicking aspect of human nature. They don't want any kind of job in which they have to do that. You will find that they are slowly marginalized. They can be happy that way. They are never going to assume a position of great responsibility because it involves all of this."

"The other branch of the deniers are the people that are the passive-aggressors. ... People who consciously don't want to admit that there is any kind of manipulation involved, but unconsciously are playing all kinds of games."

"The second type of person besides the deniers are those who love this Machiavellian part of our nature and revel in it and are master manipulators, and con artists, and connivers and are very aggressive."

The third type is what I am calling the radical realist. It is what I am proposing that you adopt."

Re: The "Machiavellian Reality" -- speech by Robert Greene

#32

Post by aik » Wed, Jan 12, 2011, 11:39 PM UTC

bioh42_2 wrote: post #29

bhoung wrote: post #3

Really enjoyed the article. I've skimmed Greene's book and thought it was just a modernisation of Machiavelli's "The Prince". This article really shows how passionate he is about understanding and accepting human nature. Because Greene's book is prescriptive in that it lists 48 laws, I had thought there wasn't that much depth to it. I'm pleasantly surprised by Greene's insight.

This article really shows how passionate he is about understanding and accepting human nature. OK I must be weird! I am a software engineer (I know you are shocked, SHOCKED that there's are hackers/engineers/programmers on HN!) and I am an introvert and a bit of a misanthrope. But all of this Machiavellian/Human nature/How to make friends and influence people stuff just seems SO obvious to me! Yes, even the real deep…

I agree that Greene seemed overly naive having to put that much thought into why the woman disliked him.

For the most part I think people are (or have the capability, or have been) very aware of it all, but as Greene says, just not accepting of it. The habit of not accepting it becomes so ingrained to a point of it only existing subconsciously. Bringing this back into the conscious can be very difficult, and perhaps may be what Greene went through.

If you grew up in full acceptance of the reality, complete with the wisdom, necessary experience, and knowledge of how to make use of it and act and respond in the proper circumstances, then I would say you are very much in the minority.

Re: The "Machiavellian Reality" -- speech by Robert Greene

#33

Post by bhoung » Thu, Jan 13, 2011, 1:04 AM UTC

JanezStupar wrote: post #17

bhoung wrote: post #3

Really enjoyed the article. I've skimmed Greene's book and thought it was just a modernisation of Machiavelli's "The Prince". This article really shows how passionate he is about understanding and accepting human nature. Because Greene's book is prescriptive in that it lists 48 laws, I had thought there wasn't that much depth to it. I'm pleasantly surprised by Greene's insight.

I own the three bestsellers (48 laws, 33 strategies, art of seduction). Calling it modernization of The Prince is wrong (I also own The Prince AND Discourses on Livy) - it is more a condensate of the works of people he refers to and cites: Niccolo Machiavelli, Sun Tzu, Baltasar Gracian, Otto Von Bismarck, Carl Von Clausevitz, Napoleon, Platon, Aristoteles, Friedrich Nietzche... All the great classics - as such Greene…

I know, I know. A gross over-generalisation which I conceded in the original comment. But clicking around on his blog, I found a quote from his interview by Tucker Max which shows that his inspiration was definitely Machiavelli.

"I pitched to him an idea about the timelessness of Machiavelli which ended up turning into the 48 Laws of Power."

http://www.powerseductionandwar.com/archives/the_robert_gree...

Re: The "Machiavellian Reality" -- speech by Robert Greene

#34

Post by bioh42_2 » Thu, Jan 13, 2011, 2:29 PM UTC

aik wrote: post #32

bioh42_2 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This article really shows how passionate he is about understanding and accepting human nature. OK I must be weird! I am a software engineer (I know you are shocked, SHOCKED that there's are hackers/engineers/programmers on HN!) and I am an introvert and a bit of a misanthrope. But all of this Machiavellian/Human nature/How to make friends and influence people stuff just seems SO obvious to me! Yes, even the real deep…

I agree that Greene seemed overly naive having to put that much thought into why the woman disliked him. For the most part I think people are (or have the capability, or have been) very aware of it all, but as Greene says, just not accepting of it. The habit of not accepting it becomes so ingrained to a point of it only existing subconsciously. Bringing this back into the conscious can be very difficult, and perhaps…

Hmmm, I am quite a pessimist so perhaps that means I have quite the acceptance of reality.