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Americans Have Shifted Dramatically on What Values Matter Most

wsj.com

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Re: Americans Have Shifted Dramatically on What Values Matter Most

#31

Post by jdsully »

paulsutter wrote: post #26
asdf21 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are easily the best large country (over 150M population or so) as far as any sort of civil liberties, standards of living, etc.

Having lived in Japan I assure you that you're mistaken. Have you travelled? EDIT: I'm fine with a search by Japanese police, yet I would never answer a question asked by a policeman in the US except through a lawyer. What does that say about civil liberties?

Funny you mentioned Japan. All the travel videos I see warn you the police can (and will) question you, search your pockets, etc. And can detain you at the police station for merely being suspicious (so you better answer when they ask!).

It doesn’t sound like a great place for civil liberties.

Re: Americans Have Shifted Dramatically on What Values Matter Most

#32

Post by mrkstu »

paulsutter wrote: post #26
asdf21 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are easily the best large country (over 150M population or so) as far as any sort of civil liberties, standards of living, etc.

Having lived in Japan I assure you that you're mistaken. Have you travelled? EDIT: I'm fine with a search by Japanese police, yet I would never answer a question asked by a policeman in the US except through a lawyer. What does that say about civil liberties?

I think the previous poster would be correct if you added the qualifier of multi-ethnic.

Re: Americans Have Shifted Dramatically on What Values Matter Most

#33

Post by lixtra »

save_ferris wrote: post #7
jandrese wrote: post #2

It is interesting that support for nationalism is still popular with the older generations alongside their support for diversity, even after nationalism has been co-opted by groups hostile to diversity. The younger generations see "I support the USA" as "I support the policies of the current administration", simply because that's how said supporters often identify themselves. I think if you asked the younger generati…

> but feel that the current government is not upholding those ideals in a way they approve of. In some cases, the government is actively undermining those ideals. We’re separating thousands of young children from their parents and holding them in horrible conditions in some cases. My stomach turns thinking all we’re going to learn about this chapter in American history over the next 10 years because we’re not seeing…

> My stomach turns thinking all we’re going to learn about this chapter in American history over the next 10 years because we’re not seeing all of it unfold in real time.

> Much of this adds up to an existential crisis in democracy that we’re just now waking up to.

When do you think it was better in the past?

Re: Americans Have Shifted Dramatically on What Values Matter Most

#34

Post by pacala »

rco8786 wrote: post #14

33 here - Never cared much for religion..they look, act, feel like cults but there's an approved list of these cults apparently. Having a kid changed my life for the better but I was probably in the "not so important" boat before that happened. The big one for me is patriotism. When I was younger I was quite conservative, very pro-USA, refused to believe that any country could possibly do anything better than the way…

Patriotism is not believing your county is best. Patriotism is believing it's worthwhile to strive to make your country better.

Re: Americans Have Shifted Dramatically on What Values Matter Most

#35

Post by thereare5lights »

jdsully wrote: post #31
paulsutter wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having lived in Japan I assure you that you're mistaken. Have you travelled? EDIT: I'm fine with a search by Japanese police, yet I would never answer a question asked by a policeman in the US except through a lawyer. What does that say about civil liberties?

Funny you mentioned Japan. All the travel videos I see warn you the police can (and will) question you, search your pockets, etc. And can detain you at the police station for merely being suspicious (so you better answer when they ask!). It doesn’t sound like a great place for civil liberties.

> police can (and will) question you, search your pockets, etc. And can detain you at the police station for merely being suspicious

That literally happens in the US as well.

Re: Americans Have Shifted Dramatically on What Values Matter Most

#36

Post by i_am_nomad »

rco8786 wrote: post #14

33 here - Never cared much for religion..they look, act, feel like cults but there's an approved list of these cults apparently. Having a kid changed my life for the better but I was probably in the "not so important" boat before that happened. The big one for me is patriotism. When I was younger I was quite conservative, very pro-USA, refused to believe that any country could possibly do anything better than the way…

You can love your country without considering it to be perfect. In fact, the best kind of patriotism is the “if wrong, then make right” type.

That being said, I do believe there are some special aspects to American culture which we should be proud of, and which attract immigrants from around the world.

Re: Americans Have Shifted Dramatically on What Values Matter Most

#37

Post by stochastic_monk »

pacala wrote: post #34
rco8786 wrote: post #14

33 here - Never cared much for religion..they look, act, feel like cults but there's an approved list of these cults apparently. Having a kid changed my life for the better but I was probably in the "not so important" boat before that happened. The big one for me is patriotism. When I was younger I was quite conservative, very pro-USA, refused to believe that any country could possibly do anything better than the way…

Patriotism is not believing your county is best. Patriotism is believing it's worthwhile to strive to make your country better.

Many Americans were raised with a sort of nationalism people simply called patriotism.

Re: Americans Have Shifted Dramatically on What Values Matter Most

#38

Post by metalliqaz »

cwperkins wrote: post #10
jandrese wrote: post #2

It is interesting that support for nationalism is still popular with the older generations alongside their support for diversity, even after nationalism has been co-opted by groups hostile to diversity. The younger generations see "I support the USA" as "I support the policies of the current administration", simply because that's how said supporters often identify themselves. I think if you asked the younger generati…

With all due respect, I did not vote for the president but now find myself more aligned with the Republicans than any 2020 Democrat. Its a smear that they are anti-Diversity. A lot of the young men I know feel disenfranchised in a system that does not value them even though they are not in any positions of power. All are sympathetic to historical injustices and see the President doing things like First Step Act and O…

If you think that the way the president primarily is affecting minority groups is via First Step Act and Opportunity Zones, then you are either confused or willfully ignorant. His "me first" M.O. is based on stoking racial grievances and animosity in his base. His actual economic policies align exactly with the "swamp": funnel money to the wealthy. It sounds to me, frankly, that you are simply seeing what you want to see.

Re: Americans Have Shifted Dramatically on What Values Matter Most

#39

Post by spamizbad »

uoaei wrote: post #22
bryanlarsen wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not so if we were born 70 years ago. Really? That means growing up during late 60's, 70's, 80's. Vietnam, Watergate, trickle-down economics, ...

Being born in 1949, the aftermath of WWII, when the US experienced perhaps its starkest wealth increase on a national and personal level (think American Dream, green lawns, and white picket fences!) and the pathos was high to pursue such ideals, would have still been a boon. Yes one probably would have been drafted into Vietnam but in my view even the national conversation about that war was a healthy one for the cou…

Most people born during that time were never drafted. Out of a pool of 27 million eligible men, only 2.2 million (about 8% or 1 out of 12) were ever drafted. And there was of course an easy out: Go to college, which back then, you could pay for with a summer job.

Re: Americans Have Shifted Dramatically on What Values Matter Most

#40

Post by Judgmentality »

asdf21 wrote: post #23
rco8786 wrote: post #14

33 here - Never cared much for religion..they look, act, feel like cults but there's an approved list of these cults apparently. Having a kid changed my life for the better but I was probably in the "not so important" boat before that happened. The big one for me is patriotism. When I was younger I was quite conservative, very pro-USA, refused to believe that any country could possibly do anything better than the way…

We are easily the best large country (over 150M population or so) as far as any sort of civil liberties, standards of living, etc.

I think you are forgetting about the US healthcare system and how horrible it is compared to the rest of the modern world.
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