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Portugal’s radical drugs policy is working (2017)

theguardian.com

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Re: Portugal’s radical drugs policy is working (2017)

#31

Post by daenz »

adamcharnock wrote: post #21

From what I hear (as someone now living in rural Portugal), a turning point came when most of the electorate knew someone suffering from a drug addiction. Be it a family member, partner, or friend - there came a point when the majority of people could not only see the problems caused by the epidemic, but could also empathise with those with addictions. As a result of this understanding/empathy, it was possible to pas…

For obvious reasons, I think many people would be against the suggestion that if more people were suffering from life-destroying drug addiction, a turning point would be reached and the problem would be solved faster. Surely there is a way to push back the spread of drugs and addiction, without letting it overtake society first.

Re: Portugal’s radical drugs policy is working (2017)

#32

Post by icebraining »

jaredklewis wrote: post #22
icebraining wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Drugs in Portugal are still illegal, so that doesn't answer the question.

But now we’re just playing semantics. For most intents and purposes, the difference between legal and fully decriminalized is not significant. The parent’s point is that there are many parties with an interest in drugs being criminalized, which explains why the world has not copied Portugal’s decriminalization model.

> For most intents and purposes, the difference between legal and fully decriminalized is not significant.

Parent talked about profit, but in Portugal the production, distribution and sale are still a crime, and therefore the people profiting from those activities are still the same.

Re: Portugal’s radical drugs policy is working (2017)

#33

Post by dalore »

luckylion wrote: post #9
ahelwer wrote: post #7

But thanks to Reaganomics, prison turned to profits 'Cause free labor's the cornerstone of US economics 'Cause slavery was abolished, unless you are in prison You think I am bullshittin', then read the 13th Amendment Involuntary servitude and slavery it prohibits That's why they givin' drug offenders time in double digits Killer Mike, "Reagan" https://youtube.com/watch?v=6lIqNjC1RKU

That may be a big part of the reason in the US, but Germany for example isn't big on decriminalization either, and we don't have anything similar to the US prison complex. I think a large part over here is that people think it's wrong and they don't believe in the individual's right to make a choice they consider wrong. Worldwide it's probably a mix of the two: powerful interests profiteering from the status quo and…

This is what the article touched on. The culture has to shift to viewing drug addicts not as "druggies" but as someone with a problem who needs help. They changed the language they used to call them. Once this shift happened it's led the path to actually helping them instead of vilifying them.

Re: Portugal’s radical drugs policy is working (2017)

#34

Post by Nextgrid »

testaccount13 wrote: post #4
anm89 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's unfortunate that this sounds so tin foil hat because it is absolutely true. There is no grand conspiracy to keep drugs illegal. There is a vast, semi well intentioned system built over a century that people adapted to over time to profit off of and now that they are profiting they are not going to give it up easily. Because of the governmental nature of the people who profit they are also very well positioned to…

Nothing tinfoil hat about it. Drug dealers & cartels are well-known for using force to maintain monopolies.

I’m assuming the parent comment referred to “legal” actors lobbying to keep drugs illegal, as opposed to the cartels themselves.

Do you think cartels have an interest in drugs being illegal, and if so could you explain why? I’d expect cartels to welcome the change as they can do away with fighting the law (where they no doubt pour a lot of their resources into) and start operating as legitimate businesses.

Re: Portugal’s radical drugs policy is working (2017)

#35

Post by Couto »

lostmymind66 wrote: post #17

Because Portugal doesn't have countries like Mexico bordering it that will use the legal drug trade to further fund cartel violence and control over the country. Corruption is already so rampant, they need to fix their problems before we should ever think about legalizing all drugs. We already have an Opioid crises in the US..and this is with legal drugs. Lawmakers are already starting to blame the legal drug dealers…

You are right, but just to give a better picture of Portugal: We still have a lot of illegal drugs coming from Morocco, it's not a solved problem yet.

When this law was approved (2001) Portugal (Casal Ventoso) was the major Europe's entrypoint for heroin and everybody knew someone who was addicted, and it was impossible to walk in any city's park and not see an used syringe on the ground.

I think what's happening in the US with the opioid crisis is a bit different that requires a different solution. Regulation vs Decriminalization.

Re: Portugal’s radical drugs policy is working (2017)

#36

Post by [deleted] »

lostmymind66 wrote: post #17

Because Portugal doesn't have countries like Mexico bordering it that will use the legal drug trade to further fund cartel violence and control over the country. Corruption is already so rampant, they need to fix their problems before we should ever think about legalizing all drugs. We already have an Opioid crises in the US..and this is with legal drugs. Lawmakers are already starting to blame the legal drug dealers…

[deleted]

Re: Portugal’s radical drugs policy is working (2017)

#37

Post by collyw »

pizza wrote: post #28
collyw wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heroin does seem to be a problematic drug. I read that only 10% of users get addicted. But are there places where heroin is used where it doesn't become a problem? (I am from the country where the film Trainspotting is set).

> In 1971, as the Vietnam War was heading into its sixteenth year, congressmen Robert Steele from Connecticut and Morgan Murphy from Illinois made a discovery that stunned the American public. While visiting the troops, they had learned that over 15 percent of U.S. soldiers stationed there were heroin addicts. Follow up research revealed that 35 percent of service members in Vietnam had tried heroin and as many as 20…

True, I had heard that before, but its not really what I was asking. Your example still has 10% addicts (the same number that I mentioned). Did these people become problematic to their wider community? The 10% who become addicted have caused plenty of problems in my city.

Re: Portugal’s radical drugs policy is working (2017)

#38

Post by atemerev »

grenoire wrote: post #27
atemerev wrote: post #23

“The world” is not just US and UK. Here in Switzerland, you can register as e.g. a heroin user, and be provided with cheap Swiss pharmaceutical quality heroin, for the nominal price, in specialized centers for drug users (you obviously can’t take it away, consumption is only allowed on premises — where medical and psychological help is available, and counseling programs for quitting drugs are advertised). The program…

Couldn't see much about marijuana legalisation in Switzerland, most articles refer to recent trials and such. Any sources?

https://theculturetrip.com/europe/switzerland/articles/switz...

Re: Portugal’s radical drugs policy is working (2017)

#39

Post by rolltiide »

atemerev wrote: post #23

“The world” is not just US and UK. Here in Switzerland, you can register as e.g. a heroin user, and be provided with cheap Swiss pharmaceutical quality heroin, for the nominal price, in specialized centers for drug users (you obviously can’t take it away, consumption is only allowed on premises — where medical and psychological help is available, and counseling programs for quitting drugs are advertised). The program…

Up to 1% of THC which is useless, according to the total absense of peer reviewed clinical trials on CBD and also no fun.

Europe would be perfect if literally anywhere got this sorted out

Sure, the general lack of life ruining prison sentences is ok and a stark contrast from the US, Middle East and South East Asia. And further decriminalization is ok. But where are the gummies! The edibles! Recreational highs from a convenience store are totally absent.

Hanging out with “edgy” people in Europe feels like high school 20 years ago. I really like the West Coast US culture of working professionals having weed and edibles casually.

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