Live data from Hacker News

Trade War Has Damaged U.S. Chip Industry

nytimes.com

31–40 of 223 posts

Re: Trade War Has Damaged U.S. Chip Industry

#31
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What's crazier is that the strategy of economically integrating China with the world was a Rebublican economic-liberal one to start with. Why is that crazy? Economic-liberals in the US have mostly been Republicans historically.

I think OP meant, that it's ironic.

Yeah, but it's not ironic. Parties are fluid organizations, not internally coherent philosophies. And even if they were, people are allowed to rethink their ideas.

Re: Trade War Has Damaged U.S. Chip Industry

#32
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I'm curious what might happen if China gets to a level where they have the best tech, but are not interested in sharing it.

It seems to be already happening in genetics research.

Really? How? What? Where? I honestly have no idea in what case / field the Chinese groups are miles ahead of anybody else in terms of genetics research. And I'm doing a PhD in the subject.

There are excellent groups in all countries, but in terms of superior tech on any side, I have not seen any.

There are great companies that facilitate genetics research, but the best tech in that case still is American (Illumina, Affymetrix, 10X genomics).

Re: Trade War Has Damaged U.S. Chip Industry

#33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was not free trade before though. We allowed China access to our markets, they didnt return the gesture. So econmists are wrong. You can have a perfectly unfree market and still posper, all you have to do is to convince other other nations to ignore the obvious mafia like behavior. This is both a democrats and republican making. Trump is right about this war even if it will cost some, in the long run we are bet…

"We allowed China access to our markets, they didnt return the gesture." I would argue that China opened access more than the US did. During the Mao era, it was basically impossible for US goods to enter the Chinese market. The converse was not true: Chinese goods could enter the US market. So during liberalization the Chinese opened up more than the US did simply because they had so much further to go.

While true, that is incredibly irrelevant to any current evaluation of fairness. It seems to reward an unreasonable start state for no reason.

Re: Trade War Has Damaged U.S. Chip Industry

#35
post #19

I believe this not only affecting the US. I still have not quite understood the deal around ARM, that will stop cooperating with Huawei. This is a UK based company, owned by a Japanese conglomerate, Softbank, but they were still affected because they have a development center in Texas. The logical conclusion would be that if you are a global company and want to keep selling to China (or to whoever will get a trade ba…

[deleted]

Re: Trade War Has Damaged U.S. Chip Industry

#36

I am pretty sure that China is going to take a temporary hit but in the end they will emerge stronger than ever. I think China will also redouble on their efforts to be full self-sufficient in all high tech areas, even if they have to open up for a sanction relief deal, their population will so favor local competitors, that it won't matter. China's rise will continue and dominant until their demographic bubble bursts…

Tin Foil Level = Expert China is preparing to allow massive amount of immigration from neighboring Muslim countries. I have been following local news in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Malaysia. The Chinese leadership is well aware of their demographic cliff problem, this is why they relaxed their one child policy. A single generation ago they were freaking out about over population, so they are not anywhere near running out…

Exactly how is that doing for them with PR in those countries

Re: Trade War Has Damaged U.S. Chip Industry

#37
post #9

This is the thing that economists have been pointing out for decades: at the country scale, allowing free trade provides productivity benefits to both sides, and restricting it affects both sides. You can't have a trade war without domestic casualties. What's crazier is that the strategy of economically integrating China with the world was a Rebublican economic-liberal one to start with. The plan was to make the rest…

What is free trade though? If you think about it, it’s a form of resource and labor transfer. From poor countries to wealthy ones without reverting to colonialism.

Re: Trade War Has Damaged U.S. Chip Industry

#38
post #9

This is the thing that economists have been pointing out for decades: at the country scale, allowing free trade provides productivity benefits to both sides, and restricting it affects both sides. You can't have a trade war without domestic casualties. What's crazier is that the strategy of economically integrating China with the world was a Rebublican economic-liberal one to start with. The plan was to make the rest…

Well sure American and other companies have tried to gain market share in China, but China has effectively stifled a lot of foreign competitors from entering. So it's not very symmetric free trade with China, therefore giving some justification for this silly trade war.

It's understandable though from China's perspective, that they aren't willing to give up important strategic sectors like social media or internet search to some US corporation. Especially so with their intention of being a rivaling global superpower to US one day. But it seems the economical aspect of increasing the revenues of Chinese companies has been as important or even more, which makes this practise more or less just cheating. Not that others are playing always fair, but China seems to be doing it considerably more than the others.

Just as an anecdote, AWS offers its Chinese region as a separately owned Chinese company, completely separate from other AWS regions. To me it speaks volumes how restrictive and hostile the Chinese market is to foreign companies, can you imagine having to do the same for each country? It would be a nightmare for global economy. https://techcrunch.com/2017/11/13/aws-exits-china/

Re: Trade War Has Damaged U.S. Chip Industry

#40
post #9

This is the thing that economists have been pointing out for decades: at the country scale, allowing free trade provides productivity benefits to both sides, and restricting it affects both sides. You can't have a trade war without domestic casualties. What's crazier is that the strategy of economically integrating China with the world was a Rebublican economic-liberal one to start with. The plan was to make the rest…

There was not free trade before though. We allowed China access to our markets, they didnt return the gesture. So econmists are wrong. You can have a perfectly unfree market and still posper, all you have to do is to convince other other nations to ignore the obvious mafia like behavior. This is both a democrats and republican making. Trump is right about this war even if it will cost some, in the long run we are bet…

20 years ago that would have been absolutely 100% true. The damage may already have been done, however. The IP has already been given away, so China doesn't much need us, but so has the manufacturing, so we need them. I hope that's not the case, but... we'll see.

I do remember how economists were lining up to shout their party line, that protectionism doesn't work and China was only hurting themselves. For some reason I don't hear so much of that these days, now that China's investments into local companies have started paying off.

Post reply on HN