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V Is for Vaporware

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Re: V Is for Vaporware

#31

Post by everyday847 »

amedvednikov wrote: post #4
st3fan wrote: post #2

It would be nice if people were supportive of this effort instead of just pissing on it. Of course it is incomplete at 0.0.12. Was it over hyped? Sure. Good for him to have time for some marketing of his work next to _actually writing a working compiler with a good start for a standard library_ This thing is real and here to stay. How about this: instead of writing about frauds and vapourware, contribute to the proje…

Thanks :) It's 0.0.12, the first public release. What's with all this "vaporware"? The compiler can already compile itself in 0.3 seconds and is written 100% in V: https://github.com/vlang/v#installing-v-from-source It allows building easy cross platform graphical apps: https://github.com/vlang/v/tree/master/examples/tetris It has easy cross compilation and can even compile itself for another platform: https://twitte…

When you say "it can translate and build DOOM" and suggest that repo is evidence of that fact -- why does that repo contain a single .v source file, p_enemy.v, which contains fewer than 5k loc?

According to your build process, what you actually do is:

1. build ALL OF CHOCOLATE DOOM 2. replace the ONE OBJECT FILE that you translated 3. relink

so, objectively, it cannot "translate and build DOOM" and you shouldn't claim that it can!

Re: V Is for Vaporware

#32

Post by laylomo2 »

This article is toxic. So what if he overpromised and underdelivered? I would rather people support his cause and actually build something that delivers on the hype rather than sit on their high throne and shit on ambitious projects.

Re: V Is for Vaporware

#33

Post by Veen »

pdimitar wrote: post #29
nickpsecurity wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe most of you forgot the previous articles. When V author was here, he and his original site promised all sorts of huge claims that teams of pro's had either failed to pull off or barely pulled off. Not just excited about future work: claimed he already had a lot done. He talked about a few things as work in progress that would be out in a few months as if he had most of it done. Later, after much debate, he said…

May I remind you that you are not addressing a single point of those I made? I asked what's the big deal that V's author promised and under-delivered.

Some people would call “promised and under-delivered” a lie, especially when the “promises” were claims about what had already been achieved. Perhaps brazen fibbing is considered normal in the Silicon Valley startup community, but most people find it distasteful.

Re: V Is for Vaporware

#34

Post by pdimitar »

Veen wrote: post #33
pdimitar wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

May I remind you that you are not addressing a single point of those I made? I asked what's the big deal that V's author promised and under-delivered.

Some people would call “promised and under-delivered” a lie, especially when the “promises” were claims about what had already been achieved. Perhaps brazen fibbing is considered normal in the Silicon Valley startup community, but most people find it distasteful.

I find it distasteful too. But the focus on V's author is pretty bizarre. Most of HN submissions have clickbaity nature and almost nobody is complaining about it.

IMO this community made a mountain out of a mole hill when it comes to V. That was my point and I want to make it clear that I am not defending false advertising.

Re: V Is for Vaporware

#35

Post by pdimitar »

burntsushi wrote: post #30
pdimitar wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

May I remind you that you are not addressing a single point of those I made? I asked what's the big deal that V's author promised and under-delivered.

This isn't a case of promising to do something and then not meeting that promise. I certainly do that a fair amount myself, where I might promise to get to something but then forget about it or just generally don't achieve it. Unless you're a company providing a product, folks generally aren't going to hold that kind of stuff against you in my experience. The issue here is that the author made claims that were just n…

Agreed.

As I said in a sibling comment on the same level as yours, it's just pretty weird how V's author got relentlessly attacked while a ton of other clickbait titles never receive a single complaint. It's really strange.

Re: V Is for Vaporware

#36

Post by burntsushi »

pdimitar wrote: post #35
burntsushi wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't a case of promising to do something and then not meeting that promise. I certainly do that a fair amount myself, where I might promise to get to something but then forget about it or just generally don't achieve it. Unless you're a company providing a product, folks generally aren't going to hold that kind of stuff against you in my experience. The issue here is that the author made claims that were just n…

Agreed. As I said in a sibling comment on the same level as yours, it's just pretty weird how V's author got relentlessly attacked while a ton of other clickbait titles never receive a single complaint. It's really strange.

I've read a lot of the comments, and I don't think "relentlessly attacked" is the phrase I'd use. _Some_ folks were fairly uncharitable, but most from what I saw were flummoxed by the fact that they were mislead, and (rightfully IMO) pointed that out.

Believe it or not, the combination of being blatantly mislead, open source and lots of attention on HN sites and the like, doesn't actually happen that often from what I can see. So I guess it's "strange" in the sense that's it's rare, but it totally makes sense to me.

As I said, it's one thing to promise something and fail to deliver. It's another to state something as if it were true, when it's actually not.

Also, clickbait titles are not even remotely in the same category as what the V author did. It's generally socially acceptable to take a creative license with titles. It's not acceptable to take creative license with precise claims about a technical project. And frankly, people (annoyingly) whine about clickbait titles all the time.

Re: V Is for Vaporware

#37

Post by pdimitar »

burntsushi wrote: post #36
pdimitar wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. As I said in a sibling comment on the same level as yours, it's just pretty weird how V's author got relentlessly attacked while a ton of other clickbait titles never receive a single complaint. It's really strange.

I've read a lot of the comments, and I don't think "relentlessly attacked" is the phrase I'd use. _Some_ folks were fairly uncharitable, but most from what I saw were flummoxed by the fact that they were mislead, and (rightfully IMO) pointed that out. Believe it or not, the combination of being blatantly mislead, open source and lots of attention on HN sites and the like, doesn't actually happen that often from what…

Well, it seems we are on exactly the same page, just living in slightly different filter bubbles.

To V's author credit, he went ahead and updated the website. Let's see if the thing gets traction in the future. It has quite ambitious goals and I remain cautiously skeptical.

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