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It's Cold in the Information Age

natalian.org

31–40 of 126 posts

Re: It's Cold in the Information Age

#32
post #23

> kubernetes's insane complexity proliferating Is K8S any more complex than the other options for deploying apps across a fleet? I’m genuinely curious because it looks complex to me, but I have little background to determine if what I see is complexity or unfamiliar territory.

Deploying apps across a fleet is far more complex than most of its practitioners need.

How is that? You create an object with some metadata and that's it. Don't know how that can be done any easier. I honestly get the feeling only people who have never used K8s deem it complex.

Running a cluster yourself is another topic, although there are way more complex orchestrators on the market than K8s.

Re: It's Cold in the Information Age

#34
I don't know, #cryptowinter makes me feel warm inside, and for Uber I only wish it happened sooner :). What also warms my spirit is that it seems GDPR had a side-effect in that many other places are now considering implementing similar data protection regulation. So it's not all bad news.

That said, I sort of agree with the sentiment. Where's the technological innovation on the web these days? Where are the tools and technologies that allow me to work better than 10 years ago, and not just worse but with JavaScript, or worse but with high-resolution and shiny (yet bloaty and unergonomic) UI? What's there currently beyond WebAssembly (i.e. "all the old stuff, but in web browser", which has a few benefits)?

Re: It's Cold in the Information Age

#35

The current crappiness of AR reminds me of the early days of MP3 players. Only a few geeks had them, and it took forever to load an album over the printer port if it didn't crash half way. Then 5 years later, everyone had an iPod.

I was in highschool when MP3 players were a thing, just before and slightly after the iPod. Everyone had one. I wasn't in a particularly affluent or tech-savvy area. It was cheap to buy and just required you to know how to move files from one drive to the other in a computer - which was a skill that was very common and was actually taught at schools in my area.

Well, I just remember I didn't see another person besides me with an MP3 player on public transportation for quite some time in the NYC area.

Re: It's Cold in the Information Age

#36
post #9

I really don’t get articles like this. You can rent a fleet of computers for an hour for a few dollars. Your cellular phone is more powerful than the time-sharing systems of 25 years ago. There is pervasive wireless broadband internet available in much of the world. Single computers can be bought with dozens of cores and a lake of RAM. You can look up nearly any piece of human knowledge in a few seconds. The labor of…

> You can rent a fleet of computers for an hour for a few dollars. On which you deploy an web app that has 30 working components written in 10 different languages that is able to do a fraction of the work a single vertically scaled server that runs 3 C written components. And has less than two 9 uptime. No one person can grasp it mentally. Is statically linked and must be updated piece by piece, unable to use the dis…

Your comment mirrors the article. A bunch of projection, written out.

Lots of people do microservices for the wrong reason, with the wrong model. They don't realize this model asks for a lot of initial overhead per process for visibility and early investment into figuring out how these services communicate.

For instance, a service that sets off 3-4 layers of HTTP requests is an indicator of a bad microservice architecture.

A service that uses a shared data bus (e.g. Kafka) but can survive without it however...

That doesn't mean things are regressing. People have always done the wrong things for the wrong reasons.

Re: It's Cold in the Information Age

#37
post #24

The current crappiness of AR reminds me of the early days of MP3 players. Only a few geeks had them, and it took forever to load an album over the printer port if it didn't crash half way. Then 5 years later, everyone had an iPod.

What specifically looks similar to you? Consider there are many things which at some point only a few geeks had and which 5 (or 50) years later still only a few geeks had.

When Apple announced ARKit, this culturally geeky (not a tech) coworker of mine scoffed, saying Nintendo had something like that for the DS ages ago. That's exactly how geeks responded to the iPod with the infamous CmdrTaco post ("Lame") as a prime example.

Re: It's Cold in the Information Age

#38
post #9

I really don’t get articles like this. You can rent a fleet of computers for an hour for a few dollars. Your cellular phone is more powerful than the time-sharing systems of 25 years ago. There is pervasive wireless broadband internet available in much of the world. Single computers can be bought with dozens of cores and a lake of RAM. You can look up nearly any piece of human knowledge in a few seconds. The labor of…

> You can rent a fleet of computers for an hour for a few dollars. On which you deploy an web app that has 30 working components written in 10 different languages that is able to do a fraction of the work a single vertically scaled server that runs 3 C written components. And has less than two 9 uptime. No one person can grasp it mentally. Is statically linked and must be updated piece by piece, unable to use the dis…

So, why are we doing this?

In truth because the world of C (I was a C and then C++ programmer 30 years ago) did not enable the production of effective applications cheaply and quickly. Yes - you can write anything, but it took months and months and months.

We've traded efficiency for productivity. We have been able to do this because of Moore's law and all its friends.

Also, C code is hellish to read and understand (#define anyone?), and logging almost never happened.

As a sysadmin you will be able to look at the organisation you work in and count up the number of sysadmins, my guess is that there are less than 50% of the number 10 years ago, maybe that's the problem?

Re: It's Cold in the Information Age

#39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Deploying apps across a fleet is far more complex than most of its practitioners need.

How is that? You create an object with some metadata and that's it. Don't know how that can be done any easier. I honestly get the feeling only people who have never used K8s deem it complex. Running a cluster yourself is another topic, although there are way more complex orchestrators on the market than K8s.

It seems to be a typical "if I don't understand it and reading up on it for 5 minutes doesn't help it must be too complex" case.

Turns out turning a bunch of machines and maybe a cloud API into a functional PaaS includes a lot of logic, a lot of which is dedicated to handling edge cases.

Re: It's Cold in the Information Age

#40
I can follow up on this with my recent work experience.

The microelectronics has been on the declining trend for half a decade. A lot of people were saying that we are heading for the "long winter" in the industry.

Long term investments into manufacturing are on the all time low. Only recent events with trade war made some bigger OEMs to reopen lines in 3rd world countries other than China.

It's important to make distinction that it's not only consumer good sagged, "enterprisey" stuff sees no growth either, and that's why people don't invest more in high end fab process because they don't see server chips, router chips, and memory going up in sales any time soon.

Why it's bad? It's bad because every time the industry moves up a node, it's paid by highest bidders first. If Intel/Broadcom/AMD and other big boys wouldn't have paid for 7nm, there wouldn't have been 7nm for the rest of us.

We may not see 5nm, despite EUV being "just months away"

On other hand, our engineering consultancy saw an enormous inrush of new clients, most of whom are complete newcomers to the industry. One of them is... a furniture company, and a big one.

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