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The inhumane conditions of Bradley Manning's detention

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Re: The inhumane conditions of Bradley Manning's detention

#31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

RiderOfGiraffes, is this you?

See here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2008143 I'm looking for a separation of concerns, separating my submissions as me, finding things or writing things, from my curating activities of finding duplicates and cross-referencing, wherein I try to prevent the repetition of discussion across effectively identical submissions. I'm also using it as an opportunity to put into practice some of the things I've learned…

Great; I like it.

Re: The inhumane conditions of Bradley Manning's detention

#32
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a contest.

I think icegreentea might be wondering why there is outrage now, when this sort of thing has been going on for really a long time. eg. A fellow Australian (David Hicks) was held for years at Guantanamo without charge or trial. Rightly or wrongly, it feels like: no one cared then, why care now?

No one cared then? Exactly the same people cared then as now. I'm pretty sure that if you page through Glenn Greenwald's blog you will find more than a few instances of outrage over the treatment of military prisoners (including Hicks specifically.)

Re: The inhumane conditions of Bradley Manning's detention

#33
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand your point, but all governments are started by traitors and many rulers try to close the door behind them.

The most recent incarnation of German government wasn't started by traitors. It was started by essentially the people who were chosen by the winners of the last war.

Collaborators, then.

Re: The inhumane conditions of Bradley Manning's detention

#34
post #7
post #3

This is utterly shocking. I had no idea that solitary confinement was used in cases other than to prevent physical harm to an inmate or to prevent violence. It looks like the technique is being used the same way as a "stress position" to slowly turn Manning into a hopeless wreck willing to say anything to see the light of day again. Regardless of what Manning did (and regardless of whether or not I find it offensive)…

Do you think we should leave a mint on his (non)pillow every night? The accusations against this military person, who voluntarily violated his oath to protect the nation's secrets, are very serious, and PRIVATE, not Mister, Manning is being held to the same standards any other military person is liable to, and is quite likely to face execution by firing squad.

You could describe his crimes as to revealing government secrets to a nation he swore to protect.

Sometimes you need to protect a country from its government.

Re: The inhumane conditions of Bradley Manning's detention

#35
post #3

This is utterly shocking. I had no idea that solitary confinement was used in cases other than to prevent physical harm to an inmate or to prevent violence. It looks like the technique is being used the same way as a "stress position" to slowly turn Manning into a hopeless wreck willing to say anything to see the light of day again. Regardless of what Manning did (and regardless of whether or not I find it offensive)…

The original penitentiaries were actually designed as all solitary -- the idea was that an inmate, isolated from the corruption of the world, would find their innate inner goodness and spend the time praying - hence the "penitent" part of "penitentiary.

This place http://www.easternstate.org/ is a fascinating place to visit -- it's the model for many many prisons around the world still in use today. The idea of putting prisoners in what amounts to group housing is actually a very new notion and not at all clear that it provides a better environment than solitary.

Re: The inhumane conditions of Bradley Manning's detention

#37
I think Michael Moore said it best.

"I ask you to imagine how much different our world would be if WikiLeaks had existed 10 years ago. Take a look at this photo. That's Mr. Bush about to be handed a "secret" document on August 6th, 2001. Its heading read: "Bin Ladin Determined To Strike in US." And on those pages it said the FBI had discovered "patterns of suspicious activity in this country consistent with preparations for hijackings." Mr. Bush decided to ignore it and went fishing for the next four weeks.

But if that document had been leaked, how would you or I have reacted? What would Congress or the FAA have done? Was there not a greater chance that someone, somewhere would have done something if all of us knew about bin Laden's impending attack using hijacked planes?"

read more at http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/mike-friends-blog/why-im-p...

Re: The inhumane conditions of Bradley Manning's detention

#38
post #3

This is utterly shocking. I had no idea that solitary confinement was used in cases other than to prevent physical harm to an inmate or to prevent violence. It looks like the technique is being used the same way as a "stress position" to slowly turn Manning into a hopeless wreck willing to say anything to see the light of day again. Regardless of what Manning did (and regardless of whether or not I find it offensive)…

" I had no idea that solitary confinement was used in cases other than to prevent physical harm to an inmate or to prevent violence."

Given which way the winds are obviously blowing around here, I fully expect to get downvoted into oblivion for what I'm about to say, but it needs to be said:

There are other valid reasons. In this particular case, the detainee is a demonstrated security risk. At this point I'm sure that people will be inclined to point out that he hasn't yet been convicted of anything. True. But the bar for "demonstrated security risk" is in a very different place from the bar for "guilty." Servicemembers who are given access to classified information, especially at the Secret level or higher, are required to sign nondisclosure agreements. These aren't like corporate "we'll sue you into oblivion" NDAs: they are chock full of language about criminal penalties and (beyond the normal criminal process) being subject to investigation, detention, sequester, interrogation, polygraph, etc. He has clearly demonstrated that he is perfectly willing to disclose secrets that are harmful to the security of the United States, and so the military has an obligation to prevent any further such disclosures. Given the scale and scope of his previous disclosures, any contact represents an opportunity for further unauthorized disclosure, and so his gaolers have an obligation to keep such contact to an absolute minimum.

Re: The inhumane conditions of Bradley Manning's detention

#39
post #3

This is utterly shocking. I had no idea that solitary confinement was used in cases other than to prevent physical harm to an inmate or to prevent violence. It looks like the technique is being used the same way as a "stress position" to slowly turn Manning into a hopeless wreck willing to say anything to see the light of day again. Regardless of what Manning did (and regardless of whether or not I find it offensive)…

" I had no idea that solitary confinement was used in cases other than to prevent physical harm to an inmate or to prevent violence." Given which way the winds are obviously blowing around here, I fully expect to get downvoted into oblivion for what I'm about to say, but it needs to be said: There are other valid reasons. In this particular case, the detainee is a demonstrated security risk. At this point I'm sure th…

Haven't his handlers signed similar agreements? By your logic, no judge should be able to hear his trial lest he/she hear and expose the secrets that might be revealed.

Re: The inhumane conditions of Bradley Manning's detention

#40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" I had no idea that solitary confinement was used in cases other than to prevent physical harm to an inmate or to prevent violence." Given which way the winds are obviously blowing around here, I fully expect to get downvoted into oblivion for what I'm about to say, but it needs to be said: There are other valid reasons. In this particular case, the detainee is a demonstrated security risk. At this point I'm sure th…

Haven't his handlers signed similar agreements? By your logic, no judge should be able to hear his trial lest he/she hear and expose the secrets that might be revealed.

Actually, it's entirely possible that his handlers don't have the appropriate security clearances to hear the things he knows. Even if they have the right clearances, they don't have a need to know, and so he would be committing another unauthorized disclosure if he were to reveal classified information to them.

Your second sentence does not follow from my logic: it is not Manning's knowledge of classified information which makes him a security risk, but rather his history of disclosing said information to people without the proper clearances or need to know. Unlike Manning, this hypothetical judge has done nothing to demonstrate a propensity for unauthorized disclosure of classified materials. This will be a court-martial, so the judge will be an officer. Presumably he will have the appropriate clearances to hear all of the evidence, and the trial itself constitutes a need to know.

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