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Books and lectures don't work

andymatuschak.org

31–40 of 162 posts

Re: Books and lectures don't work

#31
post #22

I find this fascinating. Maybe it's because I can read books, have been doing that since I was 4, and it never crossed my mind that my books weren't working. Apparently something must have happened with education or attention spans in the last 20 years, as pretty much all my peers could read books and had similar feelings about them as well before that. Sort of a PEBCAK issue. I can't use this resource (that people h…

The author’s premise is faulty. Most deep learning requires spaced repetition and practice. One unmotivated reading without study is not enough. That’s why we go to university instead of merely queuing up a list of books. Most people understand this I believe.

Re: Books and lectures don't work

#32

I used to believe this too until I was taught how to read a book, a skill that unfortunately is taken for granted and hasn’t made its way into curriculums. Reading “thinking fast thinking slow” should not take 8-9 hours... it could easily take 50 (after all, it represents many years and thousands of hours of work by the preeminent thinker on the subject). Scholars have spent a lifetime studying the Inferno. I am typi…

I use my noise cancelling headphones without any music to block out noise. Sometimes even with normal headphones, not plugged in - socially acceptable earplugs. Some places are so noisy my head hurts. A full Starbucks definitely being one of them.

Re: Books and lectures don't work

#33
It's interesting how the author compares and contrasts learning from books and learning from lectures. I don't entirely disagree, but I think there's an implicit caveat here: these methods are often used inefficiently. They may be intrinsically inefficient, but I think there might be diminishing returns to designing an entirely new medium instead of encouraging a few comparatively simple - but significant - improvements to how we use what we have.

I'll use math as an example since it's what I'm most familiar with. Sheldon Axler, the author of Linear Algebra Done Right, recently released a new textbook on measure theory and integration[1]. He makes the following comment in his preface to the student:

> If you zip through a page in less than an hour, you are probably going too fast.

I loved reading that because it's true, but also because most authors of math textbooks don't spell that out for students. I don't think Guns, Germs and Steel should take an hour per page, but my point is that nonfiction material should be actively engaged with, rather than passively "absorbed." When you passively read a chapter of a math textbook you'll almost certainly fail the exercises. On the other hand if you actively read the material, attempt proofs before reading the author's, investigate how many and which definitions can be removed before a proof fails, come up with your own questions, etc. then you will master the material.

I don't know how you'd do that for a non-technical nonfiction domain, but at it's core I suspect it would dramatically improve the efficiency of learning from books. Likewise, I consider it bad technique to take notes during a lecture. If your professor is implicitly encouraging this by making it so that you have no choice but to do so in order to learn the material (i.e. some material is not in the book or easily found elsewhere, or there is idiosyncratic style), then I also consider that poor form. In my opinion you can significantly improve the efficiency of lectures as a transmission medium by having students lightly read through the relevant sections before the lecture, then actively listen with their entire attention while sitting the lecture.

I also think it would be worthwhile to have lectures recorded and uploaded for a course so students can review material without needing to rely on the book. If you combine these two mediums in the way I've suggested, I really think there is not a whole lot of improvement left to do. There might be a fundamentally novel and strictly superior way of learning, but it's hard for me to see which cognitive bases aren't covered by combining these two methods.

_______________

1. http://measure.axler.net/MIRA10May2019.pdf

Re: Books and lectures don't work

#34

I used to believe this too until I was taught how to read a book, a skill that unfortunately is taken for granted and hasn’t made its way into curriculums. Reading “thinking fast thinking slow” should not take 8-9 hours... it could easily take 50 (after all, it represents many years and thousands of hours of work by the preeminent thinker on the subject). Scholars have spent a lifetime studying the Inferno. I am typi…

If I'm interested in the subject nothing breaks my hyperfocus (this is both my superpower and my kryptonite). Well, conversations around me or music with lyrics do disturb my reading but classic music or pos-rock are a very effective way to cancel environmental noise.

Re: Books and lectures don't work

#35

I used to believe this too until I was taught how to read a book, a skill that unfortunately is taken for granted and hasn’t made its way into curriculums. Reading “thinking fast thinking slow” should not take 8-9 hours... it could easily take 50 (after all, it represents many years and thousands of hours of work by the preeminent thinker on the subject). Scholars have spent a lifetime studying the Inferno. I am typi…

Wikipedia has a good summary of Adler's method:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Read_a_Book

Re: Books and lectures don't work

#36

Pseudo-intellectual clickbait. I hate that I know this will get bazillion upvotes here simply because of phrases like "carefully-considered cognitive model at their foundation". > but the medium does have an implicit model No, it does not. There is no such thing as universal cognitive model "for books". Every writer has his own. That's why there are so many different structures and styles of presentation. That's why…

I found it ironic how unreadable this article was.

Re: Books and lectures don't work

#37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As long as its not vocal it should not interfere with his ability to read and process information of said reading.

That’s incorrect, any kind of stimulus takes away some attention.

The brain is very good at ignoring some sounds. Personally I'm fond of "white noise" generators - I have my own perfect combination of rain, wind, flowing water and nature noises that cancels everything else.

Re: Books and lectures don't work

#38
Almost all the books and blog posts can be made at least 10 times shorter without loss in educational value. People just include too much of irrelevant stuff when writing. Schools should teach brevity and search engines should encourage it instead of requiring people to inflate their writings as much as they can.

For many books you can just find summaries online, read/watch them and hardly loose anything compared to reading the whole book.

Re: Books and lectures don't work

#39
post #22

I find this fascinating. Maybe it's because I can read books, have been doing that since I was 4, and it never crossed my mind that my books weren't working. Apparently something must have happened with education or attention spans in the last 20 years, as pretty much all my peers could read books and had similar feelings about them as well before that. Sort of a PEBCAK issue. I can't use this resource (that people h…

The author’s premise is faulty. Most deep learning requires spaced repetition and practice. One unmotivated reading without study is not enough. That’s why we go to university instead of merely queuing up a list of books. Most people understand this I believe.

Exactly. Skimming through a book is not reading a book. Reading a book is not studying what's in a book. That's what I'd assume it's common knowledge about books.

That and the usual study techniques: you read the material once, read it again and underline the key material, maybe you write down a summary with that and/or a scheme, you memorise that a few times —possibly reading it aloud— and then you write it down in your own words.

Re: Books and lectures don't work

#40
I disagree with the central conceit of this piece.

>as a medium, books are surprisingly bad at conveying knowledge, and readers mostly don’t realize it.

I posit it is not that books are bad at conveying knowledge, it is that people are bad at absorbing abstract knowledge they don't put to concrete use, and that people often read non-fiction books which have no practical application in their lives. A teenager in Africa can read a book on electronics and build a generator. He learned, because he employed what he read. A man can read a book a book about building a cabin and build a cabin.

Effete upper-middle-class desk-jockeys will happily read a treatise on particle physics or ethnography but are helpless to recall it a month later because the knowledge had no real impact on their lives and thus the brain cleaned house and threw it out.

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