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Restoring natural forests is the best way to remove atmospheric carbon

nature.com

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Re: Restoring natural forests is the best way to remove atmospheric carbon

#31

Post by dragonwriter »

EGreg wrote: post #29
rsync wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I'm not sure I understand... ... The plantation being cut down and then regrown has 0 net impact" Yes, that's correct - that plantation, in itself, has zero net loss of carbon once it regrows. What you're missing is the activity in the meantime that contributes carbon to other cycles of carbon heat trapping . So when all is said and done, sure, that forest is back where it was with the same amount of carbon - but th…

It’s more than that. If at every moment someone is selling a stock, someone else is buying it, this argument would say the stock is worth zero. Because for every person trying to buy it for X someone is “buying it” for -X. But of course, X is what matters. That’s how we calculate market cap and it measures overall effects

> Because for every person trying to buy it for X someone is “buying it” for -X.

Selling “it” for X is not buying “it” for -X. It's buying X for “it”.

More specifically, if A sells X to B for Y, A gives up X for Y implying Y is worth at least X to A (and X at most Y), While B gives up Y for X, implying that X is worth at least Y to B (and Y at most X.)

Hence, that trade occuring in market where X and Y have access to all potential purchasers and sellers of X and Y fixes the value of X equal to Y.

Re: Restoring natural forests is the best way to remove atmospheric carbon

#33

Post by SideburnsOfDoom »

This sounds like the best kind of geoengineering, using safe appropriate technology.

http://www.geoengineering.ox.ac.uk/www.geoengineering.ox.ac....

If you really want to add high-tech, then use drones

https://www.fastcompany.com/40450262/these-tree-planting-dro...

Re: Restoring natural forests is the best way to remove atmospheric carbon

#34

Post by baxtr »

weepingprophet wrote: post #26

Every time an article on this topic comes up, I read the same responses in the comments, here or on Reddit. Yes, it's cheaper not to emit than it is to reclaim, but how does this comment contribute to the solution? Even if everybody stopped emitting CO2 today, we still need to remove many Gigatons of CO2 from the atmosphere to save the planet. Planting trees is cheap and is PART of the solution. Similarly, every time…

Anyone heard about the sargassum catastrophe in the Caribbean? [1]

While I think it is terrible it might be an additional great sink for CO2.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XD92EgWzZg

Re: Restoring natural forests is the best way to remove atmospheric carbon

#35

Post by Baeocystin »

fao_ wrote: post #22
donatj wrote: post #18

How does this square with the recent story about Canadian forests being carbon positive rather than negative? https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/canada-forests-carbon...

You'd know if you had read the article you just posted. ""That's because trees don't just absorb carbon when they grow, they emit it when they die and decompose, or burn. When you add up both the absorption and emission, Canada's forests haven't been a net carbon sink since 2001. Due largely to forest fires and insect infestations, the trees have actually added to our country's greenhouse gas emissions for each of th…

It's conifer's terpenes that cause the haze* in the great smoky mountains.

https://www.livescience.com/46958-trees-ozone-pollution-map....

(*not the same as smog, you need NOx emissions as well for that to form)

Re: Restoring natural forests is the best way to remove atmospheric carbon

#36

Post by umvi »

lifehacked wrote: post #32

Let's not forget the oceanic ecosystems they also remove co2, all 3 should be mentioned all the time.

Build buildings out of wood -> Plant more trees -> build more buildings out of wood -> plant more trees, etc. This can sequester a lot of carbon over time, especially if said wood buildings are in places trees can't easily grow.

Re: Restoring natural forests is the best way to remove atmospheric carbon

#37

Post by ip26 »

weepingprophet wrote: post #26

Every time an article on this topic comes up, I read the same responses in the comments, here or on Reddit. Yes, it's cheaper not to emit than it is to reclaim, but how does this comment contribute to the solution? Even if everybody stopped emitting CO2 today, we still need to remove many Gigatons of CO2 from the atmosphere to save the planet. Planting trees is cheap and is PART of the solution. Similarly, every time…

Not to mention each solution has other benefits. Expanding swampland is a carbon sink and helps absorb storms & floodwaters. DAC is a carbon sink and paves the way to ultrapure synthetic designer fuel. Wind & solar save emissions, and improve air quality near human habitation. On and on. As far as I see it, they are all virtuous technologies, and their relationship with carbon is just one more reason.

Re: Restoring natural forests is the best way to remove atmospheric carbon

#38

Post by cpeterso »

AtlasBarfed wrote: post #3

What about the Sahara? Is that too time / labor / cost intensive to adapt? An aggressive reclamation project of desert could both work towards progress in carbon recapture and add valuable natural resources to poor countries.

This video ("Can We Terraform the Sahara to Stop Climate Change?") examines how we might do just that. The conclusion is that it's technically possible (like many things), but the cost far outweighs the benefit. It also introduces new climate risks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfo8XHGFAIQ

Re: Restoring natural forests is the best way to remove atmospheric carbon

#39

Post by seveneightn9ne »

EGreg wrote: post #28
dr_dshiv wrote: post #23

When I was a kid, being an environmentalist was all about saving the rain forest. A century ago, it was all about the conservation of natural spaces. Today, it is all about carbon. To me, the carbon argument is shame-oriented while preserving (and cultivating) forests is value-oriented. This study calls into question the rhetoric of carbon -- if "restoring nature" is both necessary and more compelling for the general…

Exactly! Not to mention that reversing desertification and deforestation need to be done anyway. The Amazon rainforest is producing 20% of the world’s oxygen. Why not focus on that, Bolsonaro? But how can we get the world to change its focus? This is the biggest contributor to CO2 pollution: https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/global-warmin...

Hm, I'd heard the Amazon consumes at least as much O2 as it produces; it's basically in equilibrium. Unfortunately I don't remember the source but it was something like Planet Earth.

I found a lot of sources quoting your 20% number, but it seems like that's not net produced O2 but rather gross.

I'd be interested if anyone can find a source that says either way about the net O2/CO2 of the Amazon.

Re: Restoring natural forests is the best way to remove atmospheric carbon

#40

Post by vkou »

bg4 wrote: post #10
vkou wrote: post #5

Before we worry about removing atmospheric carbon, the easiest and simplest thing we can do is to emit less of it. It's cheaper to not emit 1T of CO2, then to pull 1T of CO2 out of the air.

Why not both?

Because emitting less is an order of magnitude cheaper then sequestration, and there's only so much economic/political capital that we can marshal for this problem.

Optimize the critical path. When your patient is bleeding from a severed arm, don't waste time with slapping a bandaid on their little toe.

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