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Restoring natural forests is the best way to remove atmospheric carbon

nature.com

21–30 of 98 posts

Re: Restoring natural forests is the best way to remove atmospheric carbon

#21
post #2

> The regular harvesting and clearing of plantations releases stored CO2 back into the atmosphere every 10–20 years. By contrast, natural forests continue to sequester carbon for many decades4. I'm not sure I understand... To me, the only question is, how much CO2 we store per km2 (which might be a higher number for a natural forest). The plantation being cut down and then regrown has 0 net impact, just like trees dy…

"I'm not sure I understand... ... The plantation being cut down and then regrown has 0 net impact"

Yes, that's correct - that plantation, in itself, has zero net loss of carbon once it regrows.

What you're missing is the activity in the meantime that contributes carbon to other cycles of carbon heat trapping.

So when all is said and done, sure, that forest is back where it was with the same amount of carbon - but the permafrost it helped melt (with accompanying release of methane) is still melted.

Re: Restoring natural forests is the best way to remove atmospheric carbon

#22
post #18

How does this square with the recent story about Canadian forests being carbon positive rather than negative? https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/canada-forests-carbon...

You'd know if you had read the article you just posted.

""That's because trees don't just absorb carbon when they grow, they emit it when they die and decompose, or burn.

When you add up both the absorption and emission, Canada's forests haven't been a net carbon sink since 2001. Due largely to forest fires and insect infestations, the trees have actually added to our country's greenhouse gas emissions for each of the past 15 years on record.""

Also, something not mentioned in the article (but added by a botanist friend), conifers in general apparently produce much more volatile oils, so are more susceptible to flames/ignition/burning.

Re: Restoring natural forests is the best way to remove atmospheric carbon

#23
When I was a kid, being an environmentalist was all about saving the rain forest. A century ago, it was all about the conservation of natural spaces. Today, it is all about carbon. To me, the carbon argument is shame-oriented while preserving (and cultivating) forests is value-oriented. This study calls into question the rhetoric of carbon -- if "restoring nature" is both necessary and more compelling for the general public. Carbon is abstract and removed. Natural forests have inherent, relatable value.

Re: Restoring natural forests is the best way to remove atmospheric carbon

#24

What about the Sahara? Is that too time / labor / cost intensive to adapt? An aggressive reclamation project of desert could both work towards progress in carbon recapture and add valuable natural resources to poor countries.

The Sahara as a desert is very important for the global weather cycle, as the hot winds created there help irrigate places with rainfall. Any significant amount of forestation on natural desert biomes could threaten to upset that cycle and make the whole situation worse.

Re: Restoring natural forests is the best way to remove atmospheric carbon

#25
post #18

How does this square with the recent story about Canadian forests being carbon positive rather than negative? https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/canada-forests-carbon...

A great deal of our forests are not "natural forests" anymore, and are mono-cultures that may be even more susceptible to issues of climate change (forest fire, pine beetle, ...). Managed (young) forests also hold less carbon than mature forests.

What I've been hearing is that one of the problems with Canada's "managed" forests is the reduction (in BC, at least) of deciduous trees which apparently can act as firebreaks [1]. BC (and the pacific northwest in general) has seen a steady increase in the length and damage caused by the fire season. It is April and we are already battling large fires in the province.

[1] https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/it-blows-my-...

Re: Restoring natural forests is the best way to remove atmospheric carbon

#26
Every time an article on this topic comes up, I read the same responses in the comments, here or on Reddit.

Yes, it's cheaper not to emit than it is to reclaim, but how does this comment contribute to the solution? Even if everybody stopped emitting CO2 today, we still need to remove many Gigatons of CO2 from the atmosphere to save the planet. Planting trees is cheap and is PART of the solution.

Similarly, every time an article about direct air capture (DAC) comes up, somebody complains that we should be planting trees instead. This is ALSO a very unhelpful comment, because in truth we need to be doing both DAC and planting trees. Even if we reforested all the depleted forests of the world, there would still be gigatons of CO2 to remove.

The answer to every proposed solution to climate change is not whether "this or that", it is "this AND that". We need to be doing everything: reforest, DAC, wind, solar, nuclear, synthetic meats, etc. The whole kit.

Re: Restoring natural forests is the best way to remove atmospheric carbon

#27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is that a lot of the carbon is still released as the sap is dried out and so on.

Got any source on that? Carbon generally isn't released without burning or so I thought. Though, this article seems to suggest that composted wood releases it's carbon which is at odds with what I thought I knew.

Biological process are generally a slow controlled burn. Compost burns the carbon for the energy that creates, releasing CO2.

Re: Restoring natural forests is the best way to remove atmospheric carbon

#28

When I was a kid, being an environmentalist was all about saving the rain forest. A century ago, it was all about the conservation of natural spaces. Today, it is all about carbon. To me, the carbon argument is shame-oriented while preserving (and cultivating) forests is value-oriented. This study calls into question the rhetoric of carbon -- if "restoring nature" is both necessary and more compelling for the general…

Exactly! Not to mention that reversing desertification and deforestation need to be done anyway. The Amazon rainforest is producing 20% of the world’s oxygen. Why not focus on that, Bolsonaro? But how can we get the world to change its focus?

This is the biggest contributor to CO2 pollution:

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/global-warmin...

Re: Restoring natural forests is the best way to remove atmospheric carbon

#29
post #21
post #2

> The regular harvesting and clearing of plantations releases stored CO2 back into the atmosphere every 10–20 years. By contrast, natural forests continue to sequester carbon for many decades4. I'm not sure I understand... To me, the only question is, how much CO2 we store per km2 (which might be a higher number for a natural forest). The plantation being cut down and then regrown has 0 net impact, just like trees dy…

"I'm not sure I understand... ... The plantation being cut down and then regrown has 0 net impact" Yes, that's correct - that plantation, in itself, has zero net loss of carbon once it regrows. What you're missing is the activity in the meantime that contributes carbon to other cycles of carbon heat trapping . So when all is said and done, sure, that forest is back where it was with the same amount of carbon - but th…

It’s more than that.

If at every moment someone is selling a stock, someone else is buying it, this argument would say the stock is worth zero. Because for every person trying to buy it for X someone is “buying it” for -X.

But of course, X is what matters. That’s how we calculate market cap and it measures overall effects

Re: Restoring natural forests is the best way to remove atmospheric carbon

#30
post #9

I think part of this, at least, it eating meat much more sparingly. From what I understand huge swaths of the Amazon are slashed and burned to make room for cattle which do the opposite of sequestering carbon by converting any it finds into methane (and meat). So basically we need to eat less meat to give plants more room. And we will need lots of room since we need to not only sequester the carbon of the trees we've…

I think part of this, at least, it eating meat much more sparingly.

Eating less meat gets mentioned whenever a climate change debate appears here. Perhaps my own position as a meat eater makes react somewhat critically to this (when I was a vegetarian, I had trouble with my digestion that eating meat seemed to solve).

With that caveat, I should say that even if producing less meat was a good solution to climate change, individual abstention seems unlikely to be a path that's going to get us very far towards this change. One can see various social movements against a variety of products which don't by themselves prevent the production of these products. Whichever actions one might describe in a "ten things one can do to save the planet" list, those actions will done by a limited number of people, determined by sociological factors. Moreover, reduce the demand for X environmentally product from group Y and you decrease the price, stimulating demand from group Z.

More concretely, I have friends are homeless and nearly homeless. Eating less meat might be healthier and less environmentally destructive but these people aren't going to make that choice because their choices and values revolve around what lets them survive. And broadly, if producers of a product can't sell to one group, they can find another group.

My claim is that any shift in agricultural CO2 production is going to require regulation, whatever choices some consumers might make just won't change things and to various extents, acting as if these choices are a program does more harm than good.

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