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WikiLeaks Archive — Cables Uncloak U.S. Diplomacy

nytimes.com

31–40 of 266 posts

Re: WikiLeaks Archive — Cables Uncloak U.S. Diplomacy

#31
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps it all comes down to whether you have faith in the American diplomatic corps. If you do, this doesn't make sense. If you don't, it does.

It's not a matter of faith; one generally wouldn't leak mundane information, only proof of misdeeds. And yet much of this leak is pretty mundane, with barely a scandal to be found in the whole thing.

Perhaps that's what makes it rather hard to judge. It's almost a higher-order leak (more words and potential relationships, than actions). So sidestepping all the philosophical dualities at work here (Stewart Brand's free/expensive information, the competing 'dishonesties' of releasing diplomacy at work / diplomats keeping secrets), the fact that we don't have a clear idea about what the resulting actions will be -- makes it even harder to judge. A whistleblower exposing something with a clear resultant action (some guy immediately going to jail, e.g.) is much easier to judge. Given the exponential potential routes all this information could go, it seems almost impossible to make sense of whether releasing it is right or wrong.

Re: WikiLeaks Archive — Cables Uncloak U.S. Diplomacy

#32
post #4

A global computer hacking effort: China’s Politburo directed the intrusion into Google’s computer systems in that country, a Chinese contact told the American Embassy in Beijing in January, one cable reported. The Google hacking was part of a coordinated campaign of computer sabotage carried out by government operatives, private security experts and Internet outlaws recruited by the Chinese government. They have brok…

There are _so_many_ rumors out there, no matter what was leaked in these cables, someone would have come out saying, "No news here, I knew it all along!"

So in so far as they let me know what rumors to choose to believe, they are useful.

Re: WikiLeaks Archive — Cables Uncloak U.S. Diplomacy

#33
post #17

Earlier WikiLeaks releases seemed to expose atrocities and human rights abuses by the US military and government, which represents at least a partial justification. What end does this release serve?

Perhaps it all comes down to whether you have faith in the American diplomatic corps. If you do, this doesn't make sense. If you don't, it does.

You don't have to have faith in an entire bureaucracy to think it makes no sense.

For instance, I don't have "faith" in the IRS. But I don't think anyone should tar up and leak the tax records of every US taxpayer.

And I don't have "faith" in facebook. But I don't want a complete leak of every message anyone has ever sent via it.

Re: WikiLeaks Archive — Cables Uncloak U.S. Diplomacy

#34

With Google referrer, to get around the wall: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=8&s... And one with single page: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&v...

All pages, one click: http://viewtext.org/article?url=http://www.nytimes.com/2010/...

Re: WikiLeaks Archive — Cables Uncloak U.S. Diplomacy

#35
post #27
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Assange made them available to the Guardian and four other newspapers: the New York Times, Der Spiegel in Germany, Le Monde in France and El País in Spain. All five plan to publish extracts from the most significant cables, but have decided neither to "dump" the entire dataset into the public domain, nor to publish names that would endanger innocent individuals. WikiLeaks says that, contrary to the state department'…

I wish Wikileaks would just dump the contents, and leave the analysis to the rest of the world. By doing selective "analysis" and redaction, they're basically doing exactly what they claim to be fighting. Either release all the information, or withhold it. Don't play sides. Oh, and while you're at it, Wikileaks? I'd love to see leaks from Russia, China, UK, Japan etc. You've been picking on the US for far too long; t…

I think the main reason they redact thing is to protect the innocent, and more so, themselves. I do agree they should stop picking on the US though.

Re: WikiLeaks Archive — Cables Uncloak U.S. Diplomacy

#36
post #27
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Assange made them available to the Guardian and four other newspapers: the New York Times, Der Spiegel in Germany, Le Monde in France and El País in Spain. All five plan to publish extracts from the most significant cables, but have decided neither to "dump" the entire dataset into the public domain, nor to publish names that would endanger innocent individuals. WikiLeaks says that, contrary to the state department'…

I wish Wikileaks would just dump the contents, and leave the analysis to the rest of the world. By doing selective "analysis" and redaction, they're basically doing exactly what they claim to be fighting. Either release all the information, or withhold it. Don't play sides. Oh, and while you're at it, Wikileaks? I'd love to see leaks from Russia, China, UK, Japan etc. You've been picking on the US for far too long; t…

I would have almost immeasurably more respect for them if they did this.

I'm not saying I love the corruption in the US which clearly exists, but giving away only one piece of the puzzle is Opinion Manipulation 101, which I think is the core reason there's rather a lot of us who don't really trust them. I won't even claim the US is nebulously "better" then others, I'll simply claim that I think if you could see everything clearly you wouldn't be able to credibly argue that the US is clearly "worse", and I would certainly bet the "uniquely evil" position a lot of people hold is completely unfounded.

Re: WikiLeaks Archive — Cables Uncloak U.S. Diplomacy

#38
post #10

Earlier WikiLeaks releases seemed to expose atrocities and human rights abuses by the US military and government, which represents at least a partial justification. What end does this release serve?

Exposure of corruption within our allies. I found things like Afghanistan’s vice president being caught (and released) in the UAE carrying $52 million in cash to be quite interesting. Also the part about Saudi donors are still the driving force in financing terrorism.

[deleted]

Re: WikiLeaks Archive — Cables Uncloak U.S. Diplomacy

#39
post #10

Earlier WikiLeaks releases seemed to expose atrocities and human rights abuses by the US military and government, which represents at least a partial justification. What end does this release serve?

Exposure of corruption within our allies. I found things like Afghanistan’s vice president being caught (and released) in the UAE carrying $52 million in cash to be quite interesting. Also the part about Saudi donors are still the driving force in financing terrorism.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/29/world/29editornote.html ( http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1948067) has a "note to readers" explaining why the NYT decided to publish the documents

Re: WikiLeaks Archive — Cables Uncloak U.S. Diplomacy

#40
post #27
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Assange made them available to the Guardian and four other newspapers: the New York Times, Der Spiegel in Germany, Le Monde in France and El País in Spain. All five plan to publish extracts from the most significant cables, but have decided neither to "dump" the entire dataset into the public domain, nor to publish names that would endanger innocent individuals. WikiLeaks says that, contrary to the state department'…

I wish Wikileaks would just dump the contents, and leave the analysis to the rest of the world. By doing selective "analysis" and redaction, they're basically doing exactly what they claim to be fighting. Either release all the information, or withhold it. Don't play sides. Oh, and while you're at it, Wikileaks? I'd love to see leaks from Russia, China, UK, Japan etc. You've been picking on the US for far too long; t…

So now all we need is a leak at NYT.
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