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Apple moves to store iCloud keys in China, raising human rights fears

reuters.com

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Re: Apple moves to store iCloud keys in China, raising human rights fears

#31

Post by zeroname »

smsm42 wrote: post #27
zeroname wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Replace the word "China" with "Sweden" and it starts sounding like reasonable policy.

No it does not. Sweden probably is less likely to horribly abuse the data to incarcerate and execute citizens for disagreeing with the government, but the goal of the policy would be the same - to make all data about the person subject to the state's control. Swedish government might not be abusing this control right now, but nobody can guarantee it won't in 15 years.

> ...the goal of the policy would be the same - to make all data about the person subject to the state's control.

That's one-sided thinking. The goal may well be to make the data not subject to the (lack of) control of a foreign state, namely the United States in this case, but any foreign state in the general case.

In fact the EU already mandates similar restrictions for data of EU citizens and special provisions for EU-US data transfers:

https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/law-topic/data-protection/data...

Re: Apple moves to store iCloud keys in China, raising human rights fears

#32

Post by eridius »

smsm42 wrote: post #29
mvid wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And go to who?

About 1000 other phone models not manufactured by Apple? Is it some kind of trick question that assumes Apple holds monopoly in the business of mobile/cloud and we're not aware of it? Or there's some other point here?

Everybody who operates cloud services in China is subject to these same laws. If you dump Apple over this, every other choice you have is guaranteed to be no better (and likely a hell of a lot worse) on the privacy front.

Re: Apple moves to store iCloud keys in China, raising human rights fears

#33

Post by Gaelan »

michaelmrose wrote: post #25
mbrumlow wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, maybe I do have it easy in my office chair, but somebody before me did the ground work to make it so what we have here is possible. If the people of China want change I am sure they can have it, but it will obviously come at a huge cost. In the meantime we can at least make their life a little better by giving them access to western technology. The alternative is that apple pulls out and has no ability to make…

If apple pulled out it at least it wouldn't be contributing to its nations efforts further people may already have incriminating data on their icloud which when the chinese authorities gain access to will lead to their detention, torture, and death. Further having inherited your relatively easy position in your chair perhaps you ought properly to feel obligated to use said privileges position to help pull others up i…

Sounds like Apple sent a warning, presumably giving people time to delete accounts.

Re: Apple moves to store iCloud keys in China, raising human rights fears

#34

Post by spectramax »

Shebanator wrote: post #21
max76 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The headline is ambiguous.

Ambiguous != misleading - the latter implies intent

No, it doesn’t.

Ambiguous and Misleading is an effect or consequence of a statement. Neither indicate any intent behind the statement. In other words, a statement can be misleading despite of benevolent intention.

Re: Apple moves to store iCloud keys in China, raising human rights fears

#35

Post by mr_toad »

smsm42 wrote: post #27
zeroname wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Replace the word "China" with "Sweden" and it starts sounding like reasonable policy.

No it does not. Sweden probably is less likely to horribly abuse the data to incarcerate and execute citizens for disagreeing with the government, but the goal of the policy would be the same - to make all data about the person subject to the state's control. Swedish government might not be abusing this control right now, but nobody can guarantee it won't in 15 years.

> the goal of the policy would be the same - to make all data about the person subject to the state's control.

The real goal is just as likely to be economic - a way to protect local businesses without actually calling it protectionism.

Re: Apple moves to store iCloud keys in China, raising human rights fears

#36

Post by Crontab »

eridius wrote: post #17
schappim wrote: post #2

My first (knee jerk) thought is “I guess this is what happens when you’re under pressure to perform better in China”; but I think there is more to the story than we know. I would be surprised Apple if caved on this without having a mitigation strategy in place.

The "more to the story" is that this is required by Chinese law, as explained by the article: > In a statement, Apple said it had to comply with recently introduced Chinese laws that require cloud services offered to Chinese citizens be operated by Chinese companies and that the data be stored in China. It said that while the company’s values don’t change in different parts of the world, it is subject to each country…

Indeed, this article also could have been titled "Apple obeys the law of countries that it does business in", but it wouldn't have been as attention getting.

Re: Apple moves to store iCloud keys in China, raising human rights fears

#37

Post by mvid »

smsm42 wrote: post #29
mvid wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And go to who?

About 1000 other phone models not manufactured by Apple? Is it some kind of trick question that assumes Apple holds monopoly in the business of mobile/cloud and we're not aware of it? Or there's some other point here?

If all that matters is the phone model, then Apple is just as good since you don't need to use iCloud. If you are going to use cloud services, do you really think Google/Android is going to be better from a privacy perspective?

Re: Apple moves to store iCloud keys in China, raising human rights fears

#38

Post by [deleted] »

smsm42 wrote: post #29
mvid wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And go to who?

About 1000 other phone models not manufactured by Apple? Is it some kind of trick question that assumes Apple holds monopoly in the business of mobile/cloud and we're not aware of it? Or there's some other point here?

[deleted]

Re: Apple moves to store iCloud keys in China, raising human rights fears

#39

Post by bpye »

jjulius wrote: post #4

Headline is somewhat misleading - this applies to Chinese iCloud accounts, not all iCloud accounts.

How do they determine if your iCloud account is Chinese. If you use a Chinese SIM card? Access from a Chinese IP? Neither? Both?

Depending on that it could still affect someone from the US for example, if they took a business trip to China. Or if something maliciously routed your internet traffic through China.

Re: Apple moves to store iCloud keys in China, raising human rights fears

#40

Post by howlingfantods »

bpye wrote: post #39
jjulius wrote: post #4

Headline is somewhat misleading - this applies to Chinese iCloud accounts, not all iCloud accounts.

How do they determine if your iCloud account is Chinese. If you use a Chinese SIM card? Access from a Chinese IP? Neither? Both? Depending on that it could still affect someone from the US for example, if they took a business trip to China. Or if something maliciously routed your internet traffic through China.

iCloud accounts are region specific, it’s a pretty involved process to change it. You have to have a local payment source like a credit card.
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