The Dutch Reach: A No-Tech Way to Save Bicyclists’ Lives • Hacker News Board

Re: The Dutch Reach: A No-Tech Way to Save Bicyclists’ Lives

#31

Post by xkcd-sucks » Sat, Oct 06, 2018, 10:01 PM UTC

rgj wrote: post #19

I'm Dutch. I've never heard of this, nor has anybody I asked about this. I've never even seen someone in the driver's seat use their right hand to open the door. Dooring is not an issue here either since Dutch cyclists tend to anticipate very well. What we do have here in the Netherlands are bike lanes, so in a lot of places the bikes pass the parked/stopping cars on the right hand side.

In the USA a "Dutch" is a common euphemism for a blunt (marijuana cigar) rolled in a "Dutch Masters" brand cigar wrapper. A "Dutch cruise" is basically loading up a car with people and smoking, and a "Dutch reach" transfers the blunt from a back-seat passenger to a front-seat passenger or driver.

Re: The Dutch Reach: A No-Tech Way to Save Bicyclists’ Lives

#32

Post by holstvoogd » Sat, Oct 06, 2018, 10:03 PM UTC

twblalock wrote: post #25

This "Dutch reach" thing is an example of a phenomenon I've seen several times before. People who promote a practice seem to think their argument will be more persuasive if the practice came from an admired foreign country, yet the people who live in that country have never heard of it and/or do not commonly do it. In this case it's the Dutch, but I've seen all kinds of similar nonsense about Japan.

yup, can confirm, isn't really a thing here in the Netherlands. the thing is though, since we have so many cyclist, you do tend to look behind before opening the car door. if you have some sense at least ;) but it is not even something you are taught specifically. Only cyclist specific thing I got in my driving lessons was how they can hide behind the pillar when approaching a roundabout, so you should lean forward to check.

Re: The Dutch Reach: A No-Tech Way to Save Bicyclists’ Lives

#33

Post by holstvoogd » Sat, Oct 06, 2018, 10:04 PM UTC

wool_gather wrote: post #30

twblalock wrote: post #25

This "Dutch reach" thing is an example of a phenomenon I've seen several times before. People who promote a practice seem to think their argument will be more persuasive if the practice came from an admired foreign country, yet the people who live in that country have never heard of it and/or do not commonly do it. In this case it's the Dutch, but I've seen all kinds of similar nonsense about Japan.

The article explains clearly that it is a thing in the Netherlands; it's a standard part of driver education there. > “It’s just what Dutch people do,” said Fred Wegman, professor emeritus of Traffic Safety at Delft University of Technology and the former managing director of the National Institute for Road Safety Research SWOV in the Netherlands. “All Dutch are taught it. It’s part of regular driver education.”

weird, I wasn't, never heard of anyone who has. i should ask some colleagues if they were taught it.

Re: The Dutch Reach: A No-Tech Way to Save Bicyclists’ Lives

#34

Post by Swizec » Sat, Oct 06, 2018, 10:05 PM UTC

emptybits wrote: post #14

The Dutch Reach is a reach to ask for, IMO. I write this as a cyclist living in Vancouver (one city named in the article) who has been doored and nearly doored. IME, shoulder checks while actually driving seem to be a dying art form. So asking for a while-parked check like the Dutch Reach ... seems optimistic. But no harm in trying. The illustration is great. I applaud all efforts to make this technique more known. F…

As someone who’s gotten doored once or twice and nearly doored all the time on my Boosted Board I make sure to shoulder check prodigiously when driving to the point it annoys my girlfriend. I also make sure to always open passenger doors with the wrong hand when Ubering.

I don’t think it’s ever saved anyones life, but I do what I can.

Biggest thing cars can do and I always do is don’t pass a cyclist only to turn right 5 seconds later. Srsly what’s the point. Just drive slowly behind them for a bit. A little patience won’t kill you.

Also, I recently had to take the American driving test (I drove for years on my EU license coz I’m lazy). The rules actually say you have to use the bike lane as a turn lane to avoid blocking traffic when turning right. That shit’s fucked up.

Re: The Dutch Reach: A No-Tech Way to Save Bicyclists’ Lives

#35

Post by gpm » Sat, Oct 06, 2018, 10:05 PM UTC

emptybits wrote: post #14

The Dutch Reach is a reach to ask for, IMO. I write this as a cyclist living in Vancouver (one city named in the article) who has been doored and nearly doored. IME, shoulder checks while actually driving seem to be a dying art form. So asking for a while-parked check like the Dutch Reach ... seems optimistic. But no harm in trying. The illustration is great. I applaud all efforts to make this technique more known. F…

As a cyclist - just don't ride in reach of car doors. If that means taking the lane and blocking cars, do so.

At any speed trying to figure out whether or not someone is in it in time to slow down is impossible. Even if you slow down to a crawl as you pass someone sitting in the car you are still relying on them not opening it into your side. If you are right beside the cars you have no space whatsoever to swerve, because swerving towards faster traffic is suicidal.

Re: The Dutch Reach: A No-Tech Way to Save Bicyclists’ Lives

#36

Post by wool_gather » Sat, Oct 06, 2018, 10:10 PM UTC

holstvoogd wrote: post #33

wool_gather wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article explains clearly that it is a thing in the Netherlands; it's a standard part of driver education there. > “It’s just what Dutch people do,” said Fred Wegman, professor emeritus of Traffic Safety at Delft University of Technology and the former managing director of the National Institute for Road Safety Research SWOV in the Netherlands. “All Dutch are taught it. It’s part of regular driver education.”

weird, I wasn't, never heard of anyone who has. i should ask some colleagues if they were taught it.

Interesting; perhaps this Traffic Safety professor does not have a realistic view of driving instruction. I.e., it's part of the official curriculum but not actually taught?

Re: The Dutch Reach: A No-Tech Way to Save Bicyclists’ Lives

#37

Post by paulmatthijs » Sat, Oct 06, 2018, 10:10 PM UTC

Sorry to be a party pooper, but this is a non-existing thing (and a repost, btw).

It’s true that we are taught to look over your shoulder when opening a car door, but to label it “the Dutch Reach” is really too much honor. It’s just common sense.

Re: The Dutch Reach: A No-Tech Way to Save Bicyclists’ Lives

#38

Post by rocqua » Sat, Oct 06, 2018, 10:10 PM UTC

wool_gather wrote: post #30

twblalock wrote: post #25

This "Dutch reach" thing is an example of a phenomenon I've seen several times before. People who promote a practice seem to think their argument will be more persuasive if the practice came from an admired foreign country, yet the people who live in that country have never heard of it and/or do not commonly do it. In this case it's the Dutch, but I've seen all kinds of similar nonsense about Japan.

The article explains clearly that it is a thing in the Netherlands; it's a standard part of driver education there. > “It’s just what Dutch people do,” said Fred Wegman, professor emeritus of Traffic Safety at Delft University of Technology and the former managing director of the National Institute for Road Safety Research SWOV in the Netherlands. “All Dutch are taught it. It’s part of regular driver education.”

It was not a part of my dutch driver education 2 years ago. I was taught as a kid to look in the mirror before opening the door. That was more about keeping safe from cars than taking care of cyclists.

Re: The Dutch Reach: A No-Tech Way to Save Bicyclists’ Lives

#39

Post by rocqua » Sat, Oct 06, 2018, 10:16 PM UTC

chki wrote: post #28

rgj wrote: post #19

I'm Dutch. I've never heard of this, nor has anybody I asked about this. I've never even seen someone in the driver's seat use their right hand to open the door. Dooring is not an issue here either since Dutch cyclists tend to anticipate very well. What we do have here in the Netherlands are bike lanes, so in a lot of places the bikes pass the parked/stopping cars on the right hand side.

>Dooring is not an issue here either since Dutch cyclists tend to anticipate very well. Two points to this: Obviously (and you probably implied this but I want to make it clear:) it is first and foremost the duty of the car driver opening a door to make sure that there is nobody endangered. Secondly: It is not always possible to anticipate car doors opening, even if you are following traffic very carefully. People si…

I think a large part of this is that dutch people expect bikes. Therefore, we notice them a lot easier. Scanning for cyclists is very much part of our system.

Another part of this is probably that cyclists are essentially never sandwiched between parked cars and traffic. The sandwiching requires you drive a lot closer to the parked cars. Without it, you can take a lot more distance.

Re: The Dutch Reach: A No-Tech Way to Save Bicyclists’ Lives

#40

Post by salty_biscuits » Sat, Oct 06, 2018, 10:17 PM UTC

gpm wrote: post #35

emptybits wrote: post #14

The Dutch Reach is a reach to ask for, IMO. I write this as a cyclist living in Vancouver (one city named in the article) who has been doored and nearly doored. IME, shoulder checks while actually driving seem to be a dying art form. So asking for a while-parked check like the Dutch Reach ... seems optimistic. But no harm in trying. The illustration is great. I applaud all efforts to make this technique more known. F…

As a cyclist - just don't ride in reach of car doors. If that means taking the lane and blocking cars, do so. At any speed trying to figure out whether or not someone is in it in time to slow down is impossible. Even if you slow down to a crawl as you pass someone sitting in the car you are still relying on them not opening it into your side. If you are right beside the cars you have no space whatsoever to swerve, be…

Sage advice! I've commuted in traffic for many years now and am constantly shocked at how close other cyclists ride to parked cars. There is no benefit. I learned the hard way, you might not get a second chance to correct your behavior.