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How to Push Past the Pain, as the Champions Do

nytimes.com

31–40 of 77 posts

Re: How to Push Past the Pain, as the Champions Do

#31
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pain is an interesting thing. When you first feel pain, it's scary and, usually rightly so, is the body telling the mind to stop something. The problem is that in order to get better in most athletic endeavors, athletes must push their bodies into an area that often causes some sort of pain[1]. A couple things eventually happen. First is the athlete starts to associate pain with progress. This is actually a bad thing…

I am an "endurance athlete" that regularly rides my bike 60+ miles. It's not a serious physical pain, like when you twist an ankle - I know when I am doing my body harm. It's pushing past a major amount of discomfort in order to achieve a goal. Granted, doing so without proper nutrition and hydration can cause injury, however your body is better off when you push through your concept of "too much". Seriously, my body…

I have done a fair amount of MA training and I think the best way to think about pain is recovery time. If I do this it will take my body less than two days to recover and it hurts but, that's reasonable if I want to progress. The next level of pain takes longer than that to recover from and should be avoided at all [1] costs. Fast recovery pain still has its downsides if you needed to escape from a burning building or run from a tiger right after a serious workout you would be slower and have a higher risk of injury etc. But, the modern world is fairly safe so it’s reasonably safe to ignore that kind of pain.

Unfortunately recovering from injury takes longer as we age so reasonable habits for a 19 year old can get a 35 year old into serious trouble. Also, you tend to get a mix of short and long term dammage so repeating low level pain can still be a sign your doing significant long term dammage.

[1] People are often willing to do longer term damage in major contests and fights. How reasonable this is depends on your personal goals.

Re: How to Push Past the Pain, as the Champions Do

#32
post #4

I think there is a comparison to be made about pushing past the monotonous work required to launch a product.

I dunno, this sounds like a terrible way to develop. We often say coding is a marathon, not a sprint, but even then, it's a marathon that lasts months or years, not a few hours. And your brain is not a muscle, no matter how many superficial similarities there may be. The boundary between "stretching your limits" and "pushing into burnout territory" is not something you can feel very easily.

An interesting article on its own merits, certainly, but trying to translate this philosophy directly into an approach to mental work sounds to me like a recipe for burnout, not a recipe for extreme performance gains. And by the time you're done tweaking it to actually work on the brain, you might as well have just started directly with an approach tuned to the brain, starting with this stuff will only have hurt you.

Re: How to Push Past the Pain, as the Champions Do

#33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and trained with some of the best. If you don't mind me asking, what were your PRs? I got lapped on a mile in high school (the guy ran a sub-5!) Have you read Once a Runner? Was that what your training life was like? Interesting offshoot - The whole point of training 20 hours a week for the Ironman triathlon (2.4 mile swim, 112 mile bike, 26.2 mile marathon) is so that the body never goes anaerobic during the actua…

Thanks for that marathon monks link, it was a great read. Is it weird that I want to do that now?

If you want to do it, you haven't thought it through.

Re: How to Push Past the Pain, as the Champions Do

#34
post #6
post #2

I was a competitive runner for many years and trained with some of the best. The difference between great runners and cyclists and everybody else is that they learn to tolerate pain - a lot of it - on a regular basis. They crave pain and can push their pain threshold far beyond what normal people would be able to tolerate. If you've ever seen a great runner working out - it's almost painful to even watch - but always…

They crave pain and can push their pain threshold... These two things seems contradictory. If they crave pain, why would they need to push their pain threshold? (Disclosure: I'm a wimpy athlete. I always thought pain was the body's signal that something was wrong, so I backed off. Your remark confuses me even more. Just trying to understand.)

I remember hearing a quote from a professional football coach after one of his players died during practice in part because of the extreme heat and intense regiment that day: "You have to know the difference between pain and injury".

Sometimes your body wants to stop just because it's hard, but your mental faculty recognizes that it's ultimately best if you can resist. Other times, it really needs to stop.

Re: How to Push Past the Pain, as the Champions Do

#35
I have been using drugs when I was young as well as being a distance runner and, well, runner's high is very similar to artificial intoxication. In fact, nothing I've ever tried has given me the same level of intoxication and euphoria as a run over 70 minutes long. There are studies that show similarities between a runner's high and opioid intoxication but I never tried opioids so I can't tell anything about it from experience.

The problem was that I quickly became addicted to running, I would feel extreme depression if I didn't run in the morning and I would often go for a second run as I was craving the pleasure. During my two years of distance running I fantasized about becoming a social outcast who does nothing but runs. Which is what I was, actually. I didn't have many activities aside from running.. I was eventually kicked out of the job I had because I had to go for a team workout in the middle of the day, which screwed up my job performance. Friday nights, Saturday nights, and Sunday nights were spent pounding the pavement.

And I wasn't skinny either, 40-50mpw with workouts sky-rocketed my appetite so I would go on a "Runner's diet": eating everything that was edible. I have lost a lot of weight since I stopped running :)

This might be a controversial view but I do think that running can lead to addiction and even though it's more socially acceptable (not to mention cheaper) than, say, heroin, like any addiction it has its downsides.

Re: How to Push Past the Pain, as the Champions Do

#36
post #30
post #21

I'm a former NCAA wrestler who's finished 2 marathons (with the blazing times of 5:01:00 and 5:00:30). All I can say is that anytime you push through a mental barrier, you become that much stronger. Your mental limitations are like muscular limitations - the more you push to the limit, the more powerful you become. I absolutely believe that there's nothing I cannot do, given the time and energy. I've run 2 marathons…

Would you be able to share a little about the 20 lbs in a week?

Don't eat anything besides lettuce and orange juice frozen into popsicles. Run 5 miles every morning wearing 3 layers of sweat suit, possibly carrying a smaller wrestler on your shoulders while you do so. Use chewing tobacco between class so you don't pass out during the day. As soon as you weigh in, eat as much as possible until the match, as both a recovery aid and to actually weigh more than you're supposed to for your weight class, giving a slight advantage over the guy who has to turn you over.

Cutting to make weight is not really a good model for healthy, sustainable weight loss.

Re: How to Push Past the Pain, as the Champions Do

#37
post #3

I'm no elite athlete/champion, but this makes complete sense to me now. The last couple of weekends I have been taking part in hill climb events. Knowing every inch of the course definitely helped me pace myself and achieve a far better time than I expected. Like the interviewee in the article, I definitely didn't look pretty in the photos: http://flic.kr/p/8KQANq

You look like every other cyclist I've ever watched climbing a hill :) shameless plug while on this topic, you should check out my cycling site, http://ridewithgps.com - really cool if you have a garmin edge 500, 305 etc.

That's funny, the picture that you are using for a GPS receiver is a Magellan Explorist 210, it's the GPS that I've been using for biking for the last few years.

But I don't think that it's compatible with your service.

Re: How to Push Past the Pain, as the Champions Do

#38
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for that marathon monks link, it was a great read. Is it weird that I want to do that now?

If you want to do it, you haven't thought it through.

Oh, I have. It's crazy that I would be intrigued by the idea of spending seven years running, fasting, and generally starving my physical body, especially when I don't particularly have any spiritual reasons for doing it.

Re: How to Push Past the Pain, as the Champions Do

#39
post #30
post #21

I'm a former NCAA wrestler who's finished 2 marathons (with the blazing times of 5:01:00 and 5:00:30). All I can say is that anytime you push through a mental barrier, you become that much stronger. Your mental limitations are like muscular limitations - the more you push to the limit, the more powerful you become. I absolutely believe that there's nothing I cannot do, given the time and energy. I've run 2 marathons…

Would you be able to share a little about the 20 lbs in a week?

Ditto to everything maxawaytoolong posted

TLDR: Mostly lost water weight. I'd done it enough to really know how my body worked. I knew the exercise techniques that worked particularly well for me, and I ate a super-clean diet.

This wasn't a Jared Fogel style "I lost x lbs." He lost fat/tissue. For wrestlers, it's mostly a water cut. In sports like wrestling, boxing, or anything with a weight division you may need to lose water weight to get down to the cap of your division. I was 171 in HS and 197-184 in college. You have to be below the division cap (any over 171 in this case would get you DQ'ed).

Water weight isn't too hard to lose when you start. In your sleep, we all lose from 1-3 lbs, then we use the restroom when we wake up (.3-.6 lbs). If you start with a workout in the morning (1-2 lbs depending on the workout), you can walk 2-3 more lbs off throughout the day. Of course, normal people eat and drink in the course of the day to "refill." Over time, you get to the point where you know how to master this cycle, with extra workouts to boost it, and control your diet to engage the metabolic systems. It's a delicate balance.

In college, I wasn't a starter who had to weight in weekly, so I wasn't always close to weight. Even though we'd work out 2-3 hours a day, we have our bodies to the point where an extra push is required to get down to size. Typically, someone my size and structure should never have been more than 5-10 lbs overweight at most. I just came in one Monday weighing a great deal, and I was also tapped to start for that match to give our starter a rest. Since my resting/homeostasis weight was 5-10 lbs over, losing the first 10 lb chunk was easy. The next portion was a little rougher, but I'd been doing this for 7 years (HS + college), so I knew how to do it.

As for the techniques, I would run, jump rope, and wrestle wearing sweats. Wrestling has a higher caloric exertion rate than boxing, which is already way higher than running or jumping rope alone. Our college facilites also had a steam room, so I would clock time there to keep my sweat up after finishing a workout.

As for diet, I'd start each meal with a couple big glasses of water, so I wasn't quite as hungry and wouldn't binge. I'd then eat nutrient-dense vegetables (spinach salad, bell peppers, seeds, berries). Then eat lean protein (chicken breast, fish, no beef). To end I'd either drink a V8 or a yogurt shake. After all of that water and nutrient dense food, you feel stuffed.

All this being said, you'd have to be completely moronic to try to rapidly that much lose water weight without having done so before. Do. Not. Try. This. At. Home. Trained athletes have died doing this wrong

Re: How to Push Past the Pain, as the Champions Do

#40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and trained with some of the best. If you don't mind me asking, what were your PRs? I got lapped on a mile in high school (the guy ran a sub-5!) Have you read Once a Runner? Was that what your training life was like? Interesting offshoot - The whole point of training 20 hours a week for the Ironman triathlon (2.4 mile swim, 112 mile bike, 26.2 mile marathon) is so that the body never goes anaerobic during the actua…

PRs: 5K 14:53, 10K XC: 30:29 all from college. Nothing fancy compared to people I trained with. I've read Once a Runner a long time ago. Training life is similar - it's all consuming really. In many ways it's like a job and a way of life. Since I gave up running and got on with my life, I still train and compete competitively - even low key competition is enough to keep things interesting and motivating even though i…

Elite runners can take enough out of themselves that the recovery is much longer. Recreational runners--well, I used to be able to do two or three every fall. Hell, I knew a guy who would run one a week. He drove race directors crazy, because he expected the gates open and the tee shirt ready when he got to the line in 5:30 or 6:00.
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