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Why work has failed us: Because no one can afford to retire anymore

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Re: Why work has failed us: Because no one can afford to retire anymore

#31

Post by balt_s »

lsh wrote: post #16
cryoshon wrote: post #5

no millennials expect to see a dime of social security income (whether or not this is justified is another question), nor do they have any plans to retire because the prospect of having enough money to do so is simply unrealistic for them. i am not the only one that has put their income, expenses, and savings rate into one of those "financial independence" calculators ( http://mustachecalc.com/#/calcs/time-to-fi ). i…

Speak for yourself, friend. You weren't born entitled to anything. I'm in better circumstances than you for my generation but it's unlikely I'll live to retirement age (disease). Grousing about 'capitalism' or the 'corporation' (or The Man, man) isn't going to change a single thing. I envy your clear vision of who to blame and where the problem lies but unless you get into a career in politics you're not changing any…

Let's see what happens in a decade.

Re: Why work has failed us: Because no one can afford to retire anymore

#32

Post by Sohcahtoa82 »

cryoshon wrote: post #5

no millennials expect to see a dime of social security income (whether or not this is justified is another question), nor do they have any plans to retire because the prospect of having enough money to do so is simply unrealistic for them. i am not the only one that has put their income, expenses, and savings rate into one of those "financial independence" calculators ( http://mustachecalc.com/#/calcs/time-to-fi ). i…

Gonna insert my anecdata here.

"no millennials" is just wrong. I'm a millennial (Though just barely, born in '82), and I fully expect to retire by 67, possibly by 65, and if markets do well, maybe even 62, and I didn't even begin saving for retirement until 3 years ago.

I always question how many millennials complaining about student loan debt either didn't actually finish their degree, or they got a degree that doesn't lead to gainful employment due to lack of research before choosing a major, or they let themselves be bullshitted by some university's marketing and wayyyyy overpaid for their degree.

Certainly millennials have the deck stacked against them, but with proper planning, they can be successful.

Re: Why work has failed us: Because no one can afford to retire anymore

#33

Post by the_gastropod »

grecy wrote: post #28
the_gastropod wrote: post #18

C'mooon > The IRA won’t make anyone rich. A calculator on the site estimates that if you’re 22 years old and making $14 an hour–saving around $120 a month–you could end up with around $230,000 by the time you’re 65 1. $14 / hour? The median household (yes, I know, household, but wait) income is the highest it's been since at least 1985 [1] at $59k/year. So $14 is definitely a bit lower than "normal". 2. Saving $120/m…

> 1. $14 / hour? The median household (yes, I know, household, but wait) income is the highest it's been since at least 1985 [1] at $59k/year. So $14 is definitely a bit lower than "normal". If we take that household income to mean it's two earners, they're each earning $14.75/hr ... (assuming a standard 2000 work year), which is 40 hrs/wk for 50 weeks

Some households have two earners. Most do not. The average is 1.3 earners per household. https://www.bls.gov/opub/btn/volume-6/use-with-caution-inter...

Re: Why work has failed us: Because no one can afford to retire anymore

#34

Post by jdashg »

russellbeattie wrote: post #24

My Vanguard 401k home page has this helpful notice in the dead center of the page: "We think you need $7,840 more per month." Sure... That makes two of us. I guess it's extrapolating my current salary out and how much I'll need to save to live with the same income after I retire. That's not going to happen. Here's a helpful article to see how far behind you are in your retirement: https://smartasset.com/retirement/av…

You can either see this as "I can't afford to retire" or as "I've let my spending get out of control, and need to course-correct".

If you ever hope to retire, you must reign in your lifestyle creep versus your real post-savings available income. If you're not saving enough, you are living above your means. This is fixable, but it will hurt.

That said, most retirement calculators overestimate your retirement expenses. Estimate what your expenses will be and plan for that. (And treat interest as inflation-adjusted so you don't end up down that rabbit-hole)

Re: Why work has failed us: Because no one can afford to retire anymore

#35

Post by Sohcahtoa82 »

Scott_Sanderson wrote: post #22
Mc_Big_G wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Downvotes are cool but counter-arguments are more convincing.

Wait there are downvotes on HN?

Yes, but you have to have at least 501 karma to be able to downvote. Until then, the arrow never appears.

Re: Why work has failed us: Because no one can afford to retire anymore

#36

Post by NTDF9 »

the_gastropod wrote: post #18

C'mooon > The IRA won’t make anyone rich. A calculator on the site estimates that if you’re 22 years old and making $14 an hour–saving around $120 a month–you could end up with around $230,000 by the time you’re 65 1. $14 / hour? The median household (yes, I know, household, but wait) income is the highest it's been since at least 1985 [1] at $59k/year. So $14 is definitely a bit lower than "normal". 2. Saving $120/m…

> The IRA won’t make anyone rich. A calculator on the site estimates that if you’re 22 years old and making $14 an hour–saving around $120 a month–you could end up with around $230,000 by the time you’re 65

So no room for 2 years of education or a drop year for health issues or layoffs or travel or starting a risky business?

Re: Why work has failed us: Because no one can afford to retire anymore

#37

Post by rabidrat »

somebodythere wrote: post #9
acchow wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People used to retire by having a few kids who would take care of them. I prefer shrinking our population, especially as developing countries are rapidly growing.

That won't really help the pension issue–pensions are held up by the expectation of a large working-age population to support current retirees. FWIW, I think people tend to overstate the risks of overpopulation; the Earth could support 10x the current population with a comfortable standard of living, if space and energy usage per person was reduced (which could be helped along by increased urbanization, among other t…

Human biomass displaces other species.

It is no coincidence that the human population has doubled sine 1970...while the number of wild (non-domesticated) animals has halved.

So sure, we might be able to support 80 billion (!!) humans...but with a correspondingly devastating loss of biodiversity.

Re: Why work has failed us: Because no one can afford to retire anymore

#38

Post by bdcravens »

Work hasn't failed us. Consumerism has. Stop buying brands. Stop buying Starbucks. Stop eating out. Stop buying the newest phone. Don't buy a fancy Macbook if you don't have a use case for one. Stop buying too much car. Stop trading resources for lifestyle.

A 25 year old who only puts $300 into a reasonable retirement fund each month will have over $1M at retirement age.

Re: Why work has failed us: Because no one can afford to retire anymore

#39

Post by RyanCavanaugh »

the_gastropod wrote: post #18

C'mooon > The IRA won’t make anyone rich. A calculator on the site estimates that if you’re 22 years old and making $14 an hour–saving around $120 a month–you could end up with around $230,000 by the time you’re 65 1. $14 / hour? The median household (yes, I know, household, but wait) income is the highest it's been since at least 1985 [1] at $59k/year. So $14 is definitely a bit lower than "normal". 2. Saving $120/m…

$30,000/year 43 years from now will be sub-poverty living. Based on prior inflation, you're looking at $6,600/year

Re: Why work has failed us: Because no one can afford to retire anymore

#40

Post by asdfasgasdgasdg »

russellbeattie wrote: post #24

My Vanguard 401k home page has this helpful notice in the dead center of the page: "We think you need $7,840 more per month." Sure... That makes two of us. I guess it's extrapolating my current salary out and how much I'll need to save to live with the same income after I retire. That's not going to happen. Here's a helpful article to see how far behind you are in your retirement: https://smartasset.com/retirement/av…

If you'd like someone to look at your budget to see if there's some fat you can cut, head on over to forum.mrmoneymustache.com and submit something to the case study forum. People are often surprised by how much they can save without significantly impacting their well-being.

(BTW that calculator is awful because it assumes you need to spend a specified fraction of your income during retirement. That's not how this works at all! By that standard, almost anyone is going to be behind the curve.)

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