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EU Commission presents draft directive to ban some plastic waste

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Re: EU Commission presents draft directive to ban some plastic waste

#31

Post by acd »

Very happy about the EU plastic ban lets hope it gets passed. Plastic waste which contains BPA bisphenol which is a weak estrogen and ends up in the oceans. Fish eat the plastic waste, humans eat the fish and becomes infertile.

Plates can be made of paper, also cups can be made of paper.

Banning plastic makes it easy to avoid plastic waste in the oceans.

I hope we also ban all food packaging since a lot of that ends up in the ocean and there is no need for plastic food packaging.

Bisphenol A of plastic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bisphenol_A

Re: EU Commission presents draft directive to ban some plastic waste

#32

Post by simion314 »

ldjb wrote: post #22

It's important to consider that people with some disabilities rely on plastic straws to be able to drink: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-derbyshire-43879489... Plastic straws and polystyrene plates are also common materials for arts and crafts. Whilst pollution is certainly an issue that must be tackled, banning disposable plastic products does have its drawbacks. I'm not saying a ban should not occur, but…

There are bamboo drinking straws, I am not sure that the plastic ones will be banned or made much more expensive.

Re: EU Commission presents draft directive to ban some plastic waste

#33

Post by new299 »

hartator wrote: post #25
new299 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't see this killing off disposable cutlery completely, there are too many businesses that rely on it. Disposable cutlery can be made from wood for example (and often is, e.g. chopsticks). That said, is it really an issue? A complete set of cutlery for a family of 3 would cost less than 10USD, delivered (based on a quick eBay search). No doubt plastic "non-disposable" cutlery is or would be cheaply available loca…

Yes, but when you are limited in your transportation, and can’t buy online, and that’s the case for some poor families, the local supermarket and their plastic cutleries is a solution that just works.

And what's wrong with disposable cutlery made out of wood, that could also be reused? It's already used, manufacturing costs are likely similar...

In the UK, metal cutlery is available in supermarkets for less than 1USD per utensil. Are you suggesting this is too much?

Re: EU Commission presents draft directive to ban some plastic waste

#34

Post by ldjb »

maskros wrote: post #30
ldjb wrote: post #22

It's important to consider that people with some disabilities rely on plastic straws to be able to drink: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-derbyshire-43879489... Plastic straws and polystyrene plates are also common materials for arts and crafts. Whilst pollution is certainly an issue that must be tackled, banning disposable plastic products does have its drawbacks. I'm not saying a ban should not occur, but…

s/plastic straws/straws/ ... there's nothing to prevent you from using paper, waxed paper, or reusable metal drinking straws except a price increase.

As was said in the video, ordinary paper disintegrates and metal straws can be dangerous. Waxed paper straws could work, though.

Re: EU Commission presents draft directive to ban some plastic waste

#35

Post by simion314 »

hartator wrote: post #12
mirekrusin wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ban is on "single use plastic items" - it's hard to argue with it - it just makes sense. Poor families you've seen will be able to re-use plastic forks and knives as long as they are meant to be durable, not one time use items; and they'll last for them longer, so better for them, no?

What’s wrong with reusing current ones? It’s not because it’s meant to be used once, that you can’t use them for months.

The current ones are too cheap, people will throw them away because washing is too hard.

Re: EU Commission presents draft directive to ban some plastic waste

#36

Post by houshuang »

avar wrote: post #24

> Curbing the use of plastic cups for beverages I wonder what this will mean for events & festivals. E.g. Amsterdam has made it a policy that big events (including normal bars when the event is going on) must issue plastic cups to curb broken class everywhere. Will we have to go back to glass, or drink our beer out of paper cups? > as well as plastic food containers, such as the ones used for take-away. I'm open to t…

At most festivals in Switzerland, you have a single kind of reusable plastic cup, for which you pay a deposit of a few Euro. You can then hand it back at any venue part of the festival and get the deposit back. Of course it requires some dishwashing facilities, but it seems to work very well, everyone is used to it, and it avoids massive heaps of garbage.

Re: EU Commission presents draft directive to ban some plastic waste

#38

Post by avar »

simion314 wrote: post #29
avar wrote: post #24

> Curbing the use of plastic cups for beverages I wonder what this will mean for events & festivals. E.g. Amsterdam has made it a policy that big events (including normal bars when the event is going on) must issue plastic cups to curb broken class everywhere. Will we have to go back to glass, or drink our beer out of paper cups? > as well as plastic food containers, such as the ones used for take-away. I'm open to t…

>I wouldn't mind such a system where you e.g. get 1 EUR back for each bottle, but it's going to have to be something like that. The current deposit fees on plastic bottles are too low, once you're earning enough money it doesn't make any financial sense to return them. I think in some countries if you don't want to get your money back you leave the bottles and cans near the garbage bin or other places and a kid or a…

> I think in some countries if you don't want to get your money back you leave the bottles and cans near the garbage bin or other places and a kid or a poor person will return it and make some money.

Indeed. Personally I do this because it's not worth it for me to recycle it on my own, but I still care about the environment and my fellow man.

But what I'm pointing out is that it's an economically irrational decision on my part, and if someone doesn't give a shit about the environment to the point of not bothering with recycling unless it's costing them money not to do it, they probably don't care that much about their fellow man either.

So in some sense it's a regressive tax (although short term), but I'd be for a policy where drinks cost a bit more to make it economically worthwhile for more people who aren't going to do it because they're nice, but for profit.

Re: EU Commission presents draft directive to ban some plastic waste

#39

Post by simion314 »

api wrote: post #23
simion314 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is not cheaper to help only the poor then have the plastic,energy etc cheap for everyone? Seems like the ones that consume and pollute the most will have the most too lose.

The poor and especially the middle class account for the vast majority of consumption and pollution in aggregate. Per capita the rich consume more, but not as much more as you might think. The typical multi-millionaire or even billionaire does not personally consume 1000X or 1000000X more than your typical member of the middle class. Maybe 10X more at most. Beyond a certain point this is "paper wealth." Diminishing m…

The point was about the poor, middle class should be able to afford the recycling costs.

From all the products that were listed the only ones I think could affect poor people would be the car tires, if the prices for this tires would increase, but plastic straws or sticks for baloons costing more won't affect the poor that much.

Re: EU Commission presents draft directive to ban some plastic waste

#40

Post by simion314 »

new299 wrote: post #19
hartator wrote: post #2

It’s worth noting that I’ve seen poor families in France reusing plastic forks and knives. Like always, this kind of policy hurts the poor a lot more.

I can't see this killing off disposable cutlery completely, there are too many businesses that rely on it. Disposable cutlery can be made from wood for example (and often is, e.g. chopsticks). That said, is it really an issue? A complete set of cutlery for a family of 3 would cost less than 10USD, delivered (based on a quick eBay search). No doubt plastic "non-disposable" cutlery is or would be cheaply available loca…

Disposable cutlery does not need to disappear, we need to have them properly recycled. You could pay an extra 1Euro at a fast food, and get it back when you return the plastic like with beer bottles.

Or as you suggest use wood or paper based ones.

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