I want to put 2D barcodes on trash-to-be. Then when you find it in nature you should be able to trace it to when and where it was purchased. If this is one of those 10% of users causing 90% of the problems - type situations this would be an effective strategy to hold trashy people accountable.
EU Commission presents draft directive to ban some plastic waste
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Re: EU Commission presents draft directive to ban some plastic waste
#12It’s worth noting that I’ve seen poor families in France reusing plastic forks and knives. Like always, this kind of policy hurts the poor a lot more.
The ban is on "single use plastic items" - it's hard to argue with it - it just makes sense. Poor families you've seen will be able to re-use plastic forks and knives as long as they are meant to be durable, not one time use items; and they'll last for them longer, so better for them, no?
What’s wrong with reusing current ones? It’s not because it’s meant to be used once, that you can’t use them for months.
Re: EU Commission presents draft directive to ban some plastic waste
#13Re: EU Commission presents draft directive to ban some plastic waste
#14It’s worth noting that I’ve seen poor families in France reusing plastic forks and knives. Like always, this kind of policy hurts the poor a lot more.
Environmental policy is probably the main factor that has driven a wedge between progressives/liberals and the working class. Nearly all environmental regulations are regressive when considered as taxes. The rich can afford to pay more for cleaner energy, durable goods, recycling, and so on. The poor cannot. I am not saying that either concern is invalid. Environmental concerns are real. I am simply pointing out a po…
Environmental and economic concerns are never at odds with each other. - It can only look like they are when you do the numbers of economy wrong.
Re: EU Commission presents draft directive to ban some plastic waste
#15Earlier quoted context omitted.
Poverty reduction programs, not trashing the planet, is the correct response to that
That can work to a point, but if environmental policies permanently increase the cost of things like energy then poverty reduction programs must pay that cost. That in turn inflates the cost of poverty reduction programs, making them require increased taxation. This in turn drags down the economy, creating more poverty.
Is not cheaper to help only the poor then have the plastic,energy etc cheap for everyone? Seems like the ones that consume and pollute the most will have the most too lose.
Re: EU Commission presents draft directive to ban some plastic waste
#16It’s worth noting that I’ve seen poor families in France reusing plastic forks and knives. Like always, this kind of policy hurts the poor a lot more.
Poverty reduction programs, not trashing the planet, is the correct response to that
Being able to buy products that are most cost effective is the only real way we’ve found to be able to reduce poverty.
Re: EU Commission presents draft directive to ban some plastic waste
#17Earlier quoted context omitted.
Environmental policy is probably the main factor that has driven a wedge between progressives/liberals and the working class. Nearly all environmental regulations are regressive when considered as taxes. The rich can afford to pay more for cleaner energy, durable goods, recycling, and so on. The poor cannot. I am not saying that either concern is invalid. Environmental concerns are real. I am simply pointing out a po…
You can avoid having poor people pay more by creating recycle points, you pay more on a soda can or bottle but you get the extra money back when you return the empty can/bottle. (I know some will say is not comfortable to do this so we need more education to have people understand why this is important)
In fact in Norway, bottle returns are accepted in pretty much every store or gas station (pretty much anywhere that sells bottled drinks), and have been an income source for kids or poor people for decades. It's contributed to a collection rate in the 95%+ range, so it doesn't just mitigate the increased costs, it provides income.
Re: EU Commission presents draft directive to ban some plastic waste
#18Earlier quoted context omitted.
What do you mean? They are so poor they can't afford metal or wood tools? We need to consider the real costs of this products, to include the price we need to pay to recycle them.
Yes, it’s what I meant. Plastic culterly can be found in your local supermarket for very cheap, and when you don’t have a car, and can’t received packages from Amazon, it can be truly your unique solution.
But is not everyone you are thinking of have already metal tools? you use those for life. I see plastic things used for fast foods or maybe you have some cheap gathering and don't want to use your good tools so they are not lost.
Re: EU Commission presents draft directive to ban some plastic waste
#19It’s worth noting that I’ve seen poor families in France reusing plastic forks and knives. Like always, this kind of policy hurts the poor a lot more.
I can't see this killing off disposable cutlery completely, there are too many businesses that rely on it. Disposable cutlery can be made from wood for example (and often is, e.g. chopsticks).
That said, is it really an issue? A complete set of cutlery for a family of 3 would cost less than 10USD, delivered (based on a quick eBay search). No doubt plastic "non-disposable" cutlery is or would be cheaply available locally.
Re: EU Commission presents draft directive to ban some plastic waste
#20It’s worth noting that I’ve seen poor families in France reusing plastic forks and knives. Like always, this kind of policy hurts the poor a lot more.
Environmental policy is probably the main factor that has driven a wedge between progressives/liberals and the working class. Nearly all environmental regulations are regressive when considered as taxes. The rich can afford to pay more for cleaner energy, durable goods, recycling, and so on. The poor cannot. I am not saying that either concern is invalid. Environmental concerns are real. I am simply pointing out a po…
Environmental collapse also disproportionately hurts the poor. When a drought strikes, they’re the first to starve. At least the pain inflicted by regulations can be mitigated, while collapse leads to something like Libya.