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Digital Capitalism’s War on Leisure

democracyjournal.org

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Re: Digital Capitalism’s War on Leisure

#31

Post by rtikulit »

ManFromUranus wrote: post #6
andrepd wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why, is it immune from criticism? Instead of this worthless comment, why didn't you read the piece yourself? Then you could make your own judgement.

No but the poster you are replying to is correct. The article is indeed a "shitpiece" against capitalism, it seeks to paint shitty video games that bilk their users of money as some sort of phenomenon that unique to capitalism. Therefore we need to enact "Big Government" to solve the problem. The author nor the readers generally could not care less about those affected, their only concern are the delicious condemnati…

Even if you abhor the remedies suggested in the article, it is still true that marketers in general are trying very hard to run ahead of the average person's cognitive defences against exploitation. Given that, much of the discussion in the article is interesting and useful (and by that I don't mean "correct".)

Re: Digital Capitalism’s War on Leisure

#32

Post by andrepd »

ManFromUranus wrote: post #6
andrepd wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why, is it immune from criticism? Instead of this worthless comment, why didn't you read the piece yourself? Then you could make your own judgement.

No but the poster you are replying to is correct. The article is indeed a "shitpiece" against capitalism, it seeks to paint shitty video games that bilk their users of money as some sort of phenomenon that unique to capitalism. Therefore we need to enact "Big Government" to solve the problem. The author nor the readers generally could not care less about those affected, their only concern are the delicious condemnati…

[flagged]

Re: Digital Capitalism’s War on Leisure

#33

Post by marnett »

colemannugent wrote: post #15

> how can the market exploitation of civic, social, and leisure spaces possibly be averted What? The ominous "market" isn't forcing its way into any of these spaces. You let it in . You bought that game with micro-transactions, you signed up for that "free" social media app that was "secretly stealing your data". What shall we do? Our economic system isn't doing what we think it should! Could it be that we don't unde…

At its simplest, if there is still private property it is not and cannot be socialism or communism. Scandinavian countries are social democracies - UBI, universal healthcare, guaranteed labor, etc are social democratic ideals. Please don't criticize the author for lacking understanding you also lack.

> we should educate people so that they can't be taken advantage of? No! It's the system that's wrong!

We are a capitalist country. Education is a part of 'the system.'

Re: Digital Capitalism’s War on Leisure

#34

Post by gimmeDatCheddar »

andrepd wrote: post #32
ManFromUranus wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No but the poster you are replying to is correct. The article is indeed a "shitpiece" against capitalism, it seeks to paint shitty video games that bilk their users of money as some sort of phenomenon that unique to capitalism. Therefore we need to enact "Big Government" to solve the problem. The author nor the readers generally could not care less about those affected, their only concern are the delicious condemnati…

[flagged]

[flagged]

Re: Digital Capitalism’s War on Leisure

#35

Post by marnett »

lr4444lr wrote: post #26
germinalphrase wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you not concerned that while some of these costs may not be entirely hidden - they are very often intentionally obfuscated? It's not exactly analogous to "people should know to avoid credit cards with 20% interest rates" as that interest rate must be openly communicated to the consumer while the collection and sale of my personal data has no such requirement.

Hidden terms in a credit card agreement are not the same concept as voluntarily confirming and paying for a video game in-game purchase. Or what is it that you're saying is hidden in video games?

Micro transactions allow some "video games" (I use quotes as it seems to mostly be mobile apps) to play nearly identically to machines you'd find within a casino. We regulate those casinos due to the known addiction of gambling - some applications employ the same psychological tactics that result in gambling addiction, and they sit right there on your phone; a phone that is constantly with you, and constantly sending push notifications to convince you to take another hit.

Re: Digital Capitalism’s War on Leisure

#36

Post by nsxwolf »

DrImplausible wrote: post #25

Games are, and won't be a "consumer luxury good", as the article states, unless we're getting into bespoke CAVE systems or Westworld-like theme parks. Consoles have achieved that point of ubiquity that they're a common household appliance, and it isn't unusual to see one. A "normal" good in other words. The games themselves are content from a production culture standpoint, which is why we so little innovation (and lo…

I really didn't understand that point at all. Were they talking about price? Because adjusted for inflation, computers consoles and games have never been cheaper.

Re: Digital Capitalism’s War on Leisure

#37

Post by jeffreyrogers »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #23
gaius wrote: post #8

That hypothesis offended the sensibilities of anyone who believes that all those who are able to work should do so. From each according to his ability, Comrade.

> From each according to his ability, Comrade. Soviet Communism is, indeed, terrible. But a UBI is basically the opposite of politburos and bread lines. And when the supply of unskilled labor exceeds the demand to such an extent that it no longer commands a living wage in a free market, what's your solution?

Has anyone run the numbers of how UBI would be financed? I'm genuinely curious, not trying to attack the idea. My impression is that people are more positive on UBI than they should be because they think it will enable a higher standard of living than it actually will. I would be more in favor of a jobs guarantee since I think people find working meaningful, but this isn't an area I've researched very much so I'm definitely open to changing my opinions if I learn more.

Re: Digital Capitalism’s War on Leisure

#38

Post by brixon »

Andrex wrote: post #9

This is a good read, but I question this line: > Video games, at their best, offer everyone an equal chance to overcome the same challenges on an equal playing field. “Pac-Man,” after all, didn’t let you add extra quarters to purchase immunity from the ghosts. I mean, in a way they did. If you had more quarters to spare in Pac-Man, you'd be more likely to make it further than your cash-strapped compatriot. But then a…

Maybe not Pac-Man, but a lot of the arcade games in the mall from my generation (40yr old) had the "Continue" option and there was no way to win the game on one quarter. It was cheap to play but expensive to win.

Re: Digital Capitalism’s War on Leisure

#39

Post by cirgue »

> passive consumption over leisure

This is the money quote for me. We somehow managed to convince an entire generation of people who were skeptical of the passive consumption of television that 'Hey wait, this other form of manufactured entertainment is entirely different and not at all bad for you because we're the tech industry and we aren't the people in suits."

Re: Digital Capitalism’s War on Leisure

#40

Post by ballenf »

One of the solutions to the problem of pay-to-win is to eliminate all laws making it illegal to hack these games. This position seems very problematic and will rub a lot of people the wrong way, but we should have the freedom to hack the code running on our devices. If that breaks someone's business model, then maybe it's the business model that's broken.

Most people don't have any ethical issues with hacking single-player games, but the morality does get hazier when you talk about hacks that unlock otherwise paid upgrades. I'll be honest, I don't know how to feel about it. I want game designers to get paid and don't want to "cheat" them out of payment, but I also feel strongly that I should be able to open the hood of my car and do whatever I want up to the limit of endangering others (whether through exceeding emissions limits or general "physical" safety).

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