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Tracking the Illegal Shipment of Sarin Precursor from Belgium to Syria

bellingcat.com

31–40 of 78 posts

Re: Tracking the Illegal Shipment of Sarin Precursor from Belgium to Syria

#31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's not "very clear" as the "intelligence" is 100% Twitter-based and zero actual autopsy has taken place, as no one actually died that day. Or so say the hospital staff.

Not sure which of the 70+ documented attacks you are referring to. And the White Helmets would disagree, and are less subject to Syrian governmental “persuasion” than doctors. There is a reason Assad’s government blocked inspectors from examining the latest claimed attack.

"The White Helmets" -- there's your problem.

> There is a reason Assad’s government blocked inspectors from examining the latest claimed attack.

That did not happen.

Re: Tracking the Illegal Shipment of Sarin Precursor from Belgium to Syria

#34

I want to be clear that I don’t know if chemical weapons are being used in Syria, although the evidence for the use of Chlorine in barrel bombs is strong. I’ll be honest and say that I haven’t seen good evidence of organophosphate poisonings, but I’m just some guy so who knows. What I do know for sure however, is that this blog is utter bunk. The Belgian customs found that without having requested the appropriate exp…

This was my first thought as well. There are plenty of other legitimate uses for what amounts to rubbing alcohol. Especially when a war is on...

Re: Tracking the Illegal Shipment of Sarin Precursor from Belgium to Syria

#35

I want to be clear that I don’t know if chemical weapons are being used in Syria, although the evidence for the use of Chlorine in barrel bombs is strong. I’ll be honest and say that I haven’t seen good evidence of organophosphate poisonings, but I’m just some guy so who knows. What I do know for sure however, is that this blog is utter bunk. The Belgian customs found that without having requested the appropriate exp…

This was a topic in the Belgian news a couple of days ago. The issue is not as much whether the isopropanol will be used for chemical warfare, nor if it should be regarded dangerous or if it is on a list with restricted substances, but more that these companies would/should have known that exporting it to Syria is a big risk given the current context. It was more of a moral question rather than a 'scientific' one. To…

> but more that these companies would/should have known that exporting it to Syria is a big risk given the current context.

The flip side is sending antiseptics such as isopropanol to a war torn country is akin to humanitarian aid.

Re: Tracking the Illegal Shipment of Sarin Precursor from Belgium to Syria

#36
post #3

Putting isopropanol in the export control list is BS. That’s a precursor to everything - you might as well say: “we don’t like you so you’re not allowed to have industry”

I found this list of all the different sorts of isopropanol uses interesting: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isopropyl_alcohol#Uses

Re: Tracking the Illegal Shipment of Sarin Precursor from Belgium to Syria

#37
post #20
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's more than enough forums to debunk weird/bad articles, starting with Twitter. Comments section tend to be filled with anonymous trolls fulls of conspiracy theories, I would prefer to see a rebunk from someone that has some kind of reputation within the field.

And sometimes a simple, straight-forward comment is all it takes to stop the propaganda effort dead in its tracks (hence why many such articles have the comment section mysteriously disabled, e.g. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/18/syria-white-he... ). Leaving it to readers to go out and actively vet the information on some other 'forum' just allows the propaganda to spread further than it otherwise would.

A voice of reason can quickly be overshadowed by a wave of ignorance. The comments sections on most of the news articles I've seen, when they're up, are usually divisive noisy trolls.

Re: Tracking the Illegal Shipment of Sarin Precursor from Belgium to Syria

#38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure which of the 70+ documented attacks you are referring to. And the White Helmets would disagree, and are less subject to Syrian governmental “persuasion” than doctors. There is a reason Assad’s government blocked inspectors from examining the latest claimed attack.

"The White Helmets" -- there's your problem. > There is a reason Assad’s government blocked inspectors from examining the latest claimed attack. That did not happen.

>> That did not happen.

Counterpoint: It did happen. Only the country currently propping up the regime's genocidaires with all-out military support is claiming it was unspecified 'militants' who blocked the inspectors.

Re: Tracking the Illegal Shipment of Sarin Precursor from Belgium to Syria

#39
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's more than enough forums to debunk weird/bad articles, starting with Twitter. Comments section tend to be filled with anonymous trolls fulls of conspiracy theories, I would prefer to see a rebunk from someone that has some kind of reputation within the field.

Let the comments speak for themselves. Don't hide them behind a barrier. Freedom of expression is more important than protecting people from reading mean ideas about their favorite politician etc.

You have the freedom to go on Twitter and write mean things about someone's favorite politician.

And news sites have the freedom to remove unwanted noise and divisive trolling from their articles.

Re: Tracking the Illegal Shipment of Sarin Precursor from Belgium to Syria

#40
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you in principle (that it's likely this is for use as rubbing alcohol, not as an industrial precursor), but in theory, there is still something going on here. Number one, they are able to track the volume and destinations of the trade. It would be weird to see a large fluctuation in exports-- why would Syrian consumers suddenly begin demanding or abandoning their use of rubbing alcohol? Demand is most li…

According to the United Nations, Syria imported 1,916,504 kilograms of "Propyl alcohol and isopropyl alcohol" in 2010, 1,705,420 kilograms in 2009, 926,139 kilograms in 2008, and so on... ...To quote another here. Isopropyl alcohol is not an organophosphate precursor. https://cyber.sci-hub.hk/MTAuMTAwMi9zbGN0LjIwMTcwMjc2Mw==/qu... Precursors of CW agents are chemicals which have relatively small molecules, that may b…

1.9 million kilograms is only ~2100 tons. I think it is perfectly reasonable to look into why a handful of suppliers are exporting ~5% of Syria's annual pre-war demand to an active war zone without bothering to follow the proper licensing procedures.
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