Vancouver signs first agreement in Canada with Airbnb for short-term rentals • Hacker News Board

Re: Vancouver signs first agreement in Canada with Airbnb for short-term rentals

#31

Post by mrgordon » Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 12:58 AM UTC

bdamm wrote: post #20

Tiktaalik wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're absolutely correct. Vancouver is unlike SF in that it has no issues building new residential buildings. At the moment housing starts in Vancouver are at all time highs, unprecedented for decades, and yet vacancy remains sub zero and housing is very unaffordable. This suggests that even these unprecedented levels of supply creation are unable to meet demand, and there are more issues at play than a lack of supp…

This is even more clear when you contrast housing supply to population growth. Population growth in Vancouver, Canada has been stable; almost linear, and relatively low. Meanwhile, housing supply has exploded across the region. Yet, housing remains unobtainable to the vast majority of residents. What is going on? It clearly is not a supply problem, and perhaps even worse, there could be a massive supply glut that for…

Normally the news articles say its Chinese investors parking their money in Vancouver housing since it is likely to be stable compared to the yuan, etc.

Re: Vancouver signs first agreement in Canada with Airbnb for short-term rentals

#32

Post by lazyasciiart » Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 1:10 AM UTC

bdamm wrote: post #20

Tiktaalik wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're absolutely correct. Vancouver is unlike SF in that it has no issues building new residential buildings. At the moment housing starts in Vancouver are at all time highs, unprecedented for decades, and yet vacancy remains sub zero and housing is very unaffordable. This suggests that even these unprecedented levels of supply creation are unable to meet demand, and there are more issues at play than a lack of supp…

This is even more clear when you contrast housing supply to population growth. Population growth in Vancouver, Canada has been stable; almost linear, and relatively low. Meanwhile, housing supply has exploded across the region. Yet, housing remains unobtainable to the vast majority of residents. What is going on? It clearly is not a supply problem, and perhaps even worse, there could be a massive supply glut that for…

Population growth is higher than housing growth and has been for a long time, it's not that complicated. http://udi.bc.ca/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/Q2-2017-State-of...

Re: Vancouver signs first agreement in Canada with Airbnb for short-term rentals

#33

Post by sincerely » Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 1:13 AM UTC

conanbatt wrote: post #27

borne0 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We disagree on the definition of dweller, cities require more than just vacation seekers to function. And the longer term renters aren't taking up those dwelling since it's more profitable for owners to rent out short term, but the reason that anyone wants to rent short term is because it's an interesting place to be, which it won't be if it's all people on vacation. I'll call this the Ibiza Quandary.

It's no quandary at all, the visitors and the landlords agree. Only a minority disagrees. If the rate of visitors reaches a rate where where the occupancy rate of airbnbs is makes them less interesting than long term units, congratulations, you have found market equilibrium.

are you suggesting that the number of tourists and landlords combined is more than the number of people that disagree with housing units existing as permanent airbnb listings?

Re: Vancouver signs first agreement in Canada with Airbnb for short-term rentals

#34

Post by coughupalung » Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 1:16 AM UTC

munk-a wrote: post #16

notatoad wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>In reality supply creation is constrained by real world factors such as time and labour supply and "just add more supply" is not so easy. It takes time. Ultimately, supply is constrained by cost. And in Vancouver, that's not an issue - if the regulation allows it, converting a single family home to a multi-unit dwelling is so ridiculously profitable that the solution to the housing crisis is to simply change zoning…

Vancouver has some special geographic considerations that you need to consider and within the downtown core the conversion away from single family units is AFAIK completely done[1]. Density increases in the downtown core are now being down by removing lower density apartment/condo buildings and replacing them with higher density buildings. I am aware that the nearest city (New Westminster) is developing pretty active…

What makes you say that Burnaby is a deadzone? Metrotown, Brentwood, Lougheed all seem to be growing like crazy. I moved to Toronto a few years ago and I'm find myself surprised by new buildings every time I go back.

Re: Vancouver signs first agreement in Canada with Airbnb for short-term rentals

#35

Post by msie » Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 1:29 AM UTC

mrgordon wrote: post #31

bdamm wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is even more clear when you contrast housing supply to population growth. Population growth in Vancouver, Canada has been stable; almost linear, and relatively low. Meanwhile, housing supply has exploded across the region. Yet, housing remains unobtainable to the vast majority of residents. What is going on? It clearly is not a supply problem, and perhaps even worse, there could be a massive supply glut that for…

Normally the news articles say its Chinese investors parking their money in Vancouver housing since it is likely to be stable compared to the yuan, etc.

Ah yes, the Chinese investor bogeyman. Apparently there are enough millionaires to cause problems in so many cities around the globe. Yet latest figures put foreign ownership at around 10% max. Let's ignore low interest rates and Canadians bidding against themselves in a hot market.

Re: Vancouver signs first agreement in Canada with Airbnb for short-term rentals

#36

Post by stale2002 » Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 1:30 AM UTC

knuththetruth wrote: post #9

pkaler wrote: post #5

This seems like reasonable regulation. And all of this demand-side management is going to do nothing for affordability. Housing affordability is a supply-side zoning issue and can be fixed very quickly: - Unify/standardize zoning. The entire country of Japan only has about a dozen different zoning types. I see more than a dozen zoning types from my home office window. - Stop going to council for spot upzoning. This s…

Supply is part of the problem, but the real culprit is that housing has been financialized and opened up as an investment vehicle for global capital. It doesn’t really matter if you change zoning laws if everything that gets built is to serve this kind of investment. Major cities in the US, such as LA and NYC, simultaneously have huge lots of vacant luxury housing stock and homelessness crises for precisely this reas…

The solution to housing being used as an investment is to build so much housing supply that this investment becomes worthless.

Why SHOULDN'T we just let the Chinese build a bunch of empty buildings? It's their money and if they want to waste it building us cheap housing on an investment that will eventually go bust, I say we let them.

The solution is scorched earth, "LOL, you thought your investment was going to go up, but instead we built such a ridiculous amount of housing that houses are now free for everyone".

Re: Vancouver signs first agreement in Canada with Airbnb for short-term rentals

#37

Post by brailsafe » Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 1:50 AM UTC

munk-a wrote: post #16

notatoad wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>In reality supply creation is constrained by real world factors such as time and labour supply and "just add more supply" is not so easy. It takes time. Ultimately, supply is constrained by cost. And in Vancouver, that's not an issue - if the regulation allows it, converting a single family home to a multi-unit dwelling is so ridiculously profitable that the solution to the housing crisis is to simply change zoning…

Vancouver has some special geographic considerations that you need to consider and within the downtown core the conversion away from single family units is AFAIK completely done[1]. Density increases in the downtown core are now being down by removing lower density apartment/condo buildings and replacing them with higher density buildings. I am aware that the nearest city (New Westminster) is developing pretty active…

What makes you think transit is poor?

Re: Vancouver signs first agreement in Canada with Airbnb for short-term rentals

#38

Post by lwansbrough » Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 1:50 AM UTC

Still can't get a taxi most nights unless you call an hour ahead. In fact, you'll be able to get legal weed in this city before you can hail a ride service.

Re: Vancouver signs first agreement in Canada with Airbnb for short-term rentals

#39

Post by lukeschlather » Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 2:08 AM UTC

Tiktaalik wrote: post #18

notatoad wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>In reality supply creation is constrained by real world factors such as time and labour supply and "just add more supply" is not so easy. It takes time. Ultimately, supply is constrained by cost. And in Vancouver, that's not an issue - if the regulation allows it, converting a single family home to a multi-unit dwelling is so ridiculously profitable that the solution to the housing crisis is to simply change zoning…

You're absolutely correct. Vancouver is unlike SF in that it has no issues building new residential buildings. At the moment housing starts in Vancouver are at all time highs, unprecedented for decades, and yet vacancy remains sub zero and housing is very unaffordable. This suggests that even these unprecedented levels of supply creation are unable to meet demand, and there are more issues at play than a lack of supp…

As long as residential units/person and square footage/person are both on the decline, you should expect housing prices to go up. AFAIK both of these metrics are still falling in all of the major West Coast cities.

Re: Vancouver signs first agreement in Canada with Airbnb for short-term rentals

#40

Post by fatbird » Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 2:14 AM UTC

lwansbrough wrote: post #38

Still can't get a taxi most nights unless you call an hour ahead. In fact, you'll be able to get legal weed in this city before you can hail a ride service.

On a Saturday night at dinnertime, I get cabs within 5-10 minutes, and I'm (just) outside downtown. Between the individual cab company apps and eCab, Vancouver's taxi services have shaped up a lot. One cabbie even described in detail how their company punished drivers who don't respond reliably to booking requests through the app. Same company told me one time when I called that it would be as fast to book through the app since it all goes into the same system anyway.

I'll credit the threat of Uber with triggering this systemic change, but I never recognize complaints like yours. I get cabs reliably and reasonably quickly even on peak nights.