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Vancouver signs first agreement in Canada with Airbnb for short-term rentals

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Re: Vancouver signs first agreement in Canada with Airbnb for short-term rentals

#11

Post by pkaler »

Tiktaalik wrote: post #8
pkaler wrote: post #5

This seems like reasonable regulation. And all of this demand-side management is going to do nothing for affordability. Housing affordability is a supply-side zoning issue and can be fixed very quickly: - Unify/standardize zoning. The entire country of Japan only has about a dozen different zoning types. I see more than a dozen zoning types from my home office window. - Stop going to council for spot upzoning. This s…

Sure I mean if we're playing with lines on a graph in a theoretical space then building enough supply can exceed the demand and result in more affordable housing. That's not real life however. In reality supply creation is constrained by real world factors such as time and labour supply and "just add more supply" is not so easy. It takes time. On top of this Airbnb has acted as a sort of friction against supply creat…

This is not theoretical. This is the exact same process that took place in Victoria, Australia.

https://www.planning.vic.gov.au/policy-and-strategy/planning...

Re: Vancouver signs first agreement in Canada with Airbnb for short-term rentals

#12

Post by notatoad »

Tiktaalik wrote: post #8
pkaler wrote: post #5

This seems like reasonable regulation. And all of this demand-side management is going to do nothing for affordability. Housing affordability is a supply-side zoning issue and can be fixed very quickly: - Unify/standardize zoning. The entire country of Japan only has about a dozen different zoning types. I see more than a dozen zoning types from my home office window. - Stop going to council for spot upzoning. This s…

Sure I mean if we're playing with lines on a graph in a theoretical space then building enough supply can exceed the demand and result in more affordable housing. That's not real life however. In reality supply creation is constrained by real world factors such as time and labour supply and "just add more supply" is not so easy. It takes time. On top of this Airbnb has acted as a sort of friction against supply creat…

>In reality supply creation is constrained by real world factors such as time and labour supply and "just add more supply" is not so easy. It takes time.

Ultimately, supply is constrained by cost. And in Vancouver, that's not an issue - if the regulation allows it, converting a single family home to a multi-unit dwelling is so ridiculously profitable that the solution to the housing crisis is to simply change zoning to allow it, and then wait. "just add more supply" really is that easy if you let the market forces work. yes, it's going to take time, but this problem has been ongoing in Vancouver for much longer now than the amount of time needed to fix it.

Re: Vancouver signs first agreement in Canada with Airbnb for short-term rentals

#13

Post by conanbatt »

vkou wrote: post #3

The rules for qualifying for a rental license are detailed, and pretty reasonable. They permit renting out a room, or your house if you live in it, but do not permit turning an apartment complex into an AirBnB hotel. In short, you can let on AirBnB, as long as you are not diminishing housing stock. [1] It's not perfect, but it's pretty damn good. [1] http://vancouver.ca/doing-business/short-term-rentals.aspx > Short-…

Short term rentals do not diminish housing stock, and help a city get more tourism which is by all means good for the whole. Its one more case of locals that vote vs non-locals that dont, even if they are way more numerous.

If Vancouver finds itself short of houses by whatever measure, they have to look elsewhere.

Re: Vancouver signs first agreement in Canada with Airbnb for short-term rentals

#14

Post by borne0 »

conanbatt wrote: post #13
vkou wrote: post #3

The rules for qualifying for a rental license are detailed, and pretty reasonable. They permit renting out a room, or your house if you live in it, but do not permit turning an apartment complex into an AirBnB hotel. In short, you can let on AirBnB, as long as you are not diminishing housing stock. [1] It's not perfect, but it's pretty damn good. [1] http://vancouver.ca/doing-business/short-term-rentals.aspx > Short-…

Short term rentals do not diminish housing stock, and help a city get more tourism which is by all means good for the whole. Its one more case of locals that vote vs non-locals that dont, even if they are way more numerous. If Vancouver finds itself short of houses by whatever measure, they have to look elsewhere.

>>Short term rentals do not diminish housing stock

If houses that would otherwise be rented or occupied are being used for short term rentals how can this be true?

Re: Vancouver signs first agreement in Canada with Airbnb for short-term rentals

#15

Post by icebraining »

Tiktaalik wrote: post #8
pkaler wrote: post #5

This seems like reasonable regulation. And all of this demand-side management is going to do nothing for affordability. Housing affordability is a supply-side zoning issue and can be fixed very quickly: - Unify/standardize zoning. The entire country of Japan only has about a dozen different zoning types. I see more than a dozen zoning types from my home office window. - Stop going to council for spot upzoning. This s…

Sure I mean if we're playing with lines on a graph in a theoretical space then building enough supply can exceed the demand and result in more affordable housing. That's not real life however. In reality supply creation is constrained by real world factors such as time and labour supply and "just add more supply" is not so easy. It takes time. On top of this Airbnb has acted as a sort of friction against supply creat…

> takes years to build

It only takes about a year in the US: http://eyeonhousing.org/2015/08/how-long-does-it-take-to-bui...

Re: Vancouver signs first agreement in Canada with Airbnb for short-term rentals

#16

Post by munk-a »

notatoad wrote: post #12
Tiktaalik wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure I mean if we're playing with lines on a graph in a theoretical space then building enough supply can exceed the demand and result in more affordable housing. That's not real life however. In reality supply creation is constrained by real world factors such as time and labour supply and "just add more supply" is not so easy. It takes time. On top of this Airbnb has acted as a sort of friction against supply creat…

>In reality supply creation is constrained by real world factors such as time and labour supply and "just add more supply" is not so easy. It takes time. Ultimately, supply is constrained by cost. And in Vancouver, that's not an issue - if the regulation allows it, converting a single family home to a multi-unit dwelling is so ridiculously profitable that the solution to the housing crisis is to simply change zoning…

Vancouver has some special geographic considerations that you need to consider and within the downtown core the conversion away from single family units is AFAIK completely done[1]. Density increases in the downtown core are now being down by removing lower density apartment/condo buildings and replacing them with higher density buildings.

I am aware that the nearest city (New Westminster) is developing pretty actively, but there is a deadzone in between the two (Burnaby) that seems to have draconian NIMBY zoning laws. Generally speaking, Vancouver's housing crisis is pretty amazingly interesting and probably is more a result of the incredibly poor transit here[2] than anything else.

[1] There may be some single family units remaining in the Denman neighborhood and there are some remaining in Strathcona (near east van.) as well as lots in Kitsilano and the south shore in general, but both of these areas are generally considered outside of the downtown core.

[2] Oh yea, we have driverless trains, woo... but there are only three transit lines none of which connect to either of our major universities and poor management of the system has left the lines overcapacity.

Re: Vancouver signs first agreement in Canada with Airbnb for short-term rentals

#17

Post by eloff »

knuththetruth wrote: post #9
pkaler wrote: post #5

This seems like reasonable regulation. And all of this demand-side management is going to do nothing for affordability. Housing affordability is a supply-side zoning issue and can be fixed very quickly: - Unify/standardize zoning. The entire country of Japan only has about a dozen different zoning types. I see more than a dozen zoning types from my home office window. - Stop going to council for spot upzoning. This s…

Supply is part of the problem, but the real culprit is that housing has been financialized and opened up as an investment vehicle for global capital. It doesn’t really matter if you change zoning laws if everything that gets built is to serve this kind of investment. Major cities in the US, such as LA and NYC, simultaneously have huge lots of vacant luxury housing stock and homelessness crises for precisely this reas…

I think this contributes, but it's not the principal problem. The core problem is supply shortage, which given the current astronomical prices has everything to do with zoning. Relax that enough and the market will solve the problem in a matter of years.

Re: Vancouver signs first agreement in Canada with Airbnb for short-term rentals

#18

Post by Tiktaalik »

notatoad wrote: post #12
Tiktaalik wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure I mean if we're playing with lines on a graph in a theoretical space then building enough supply can exceed the demand and result in more affordable housing. That's not real life however. In reality supply creation is constrained by real world factors such as time and labour supply and "just add more supply" is not so easy. It takes time. On top of this Airbnb has acted as a sort of friction against supply creat…

>In reality supply creation is constrained by real world factors such as time and labour supply and "just add more supply" is not so easy. It takes time. Ultimately, supply is constrained by cost. And in Vancouver, that's not an issue - if the regulation allows it, converting a single family home to a multi-unit dwelling is so ridiculously profitable that the solution to the housing crisis is to simply change zoning…

You're absolutely correct. Vancouver is unlike SF in that it has no issues building new residential buildings.

At the moment housing starts in Vancouver are at all time highs, unprecedented for decades, and yet vacancy remains sub zero and housing is very unaffordable. This suggests that even these unprecedented levels of supply creation are unable to meet demand, and there are more issues at play than a lack of supply.

Re: Vancouver signs first agreement in Canada with Airbnb for short-term rentals

#19

Post by Tiktaalik »

eloff wrote: post #17
knuththetruth wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Supply is part of the problem, but the real culprit is that housing has been financialized and opened up as an investment vehicle for global capital. It doesn’t really matter if you change zoning laws if everything that gets built is to serve this kind of investment. Major cities in the US, such as LA and NYC, simultaneously have huge lots of vacant luxury housing stock and homelessness crises for precisely this reas…

I think this contributes, but it's not the principal problem. The core problem is supply shortage, which given the current astronomical prices has everything to do with zoning. Relax that enough and the market will solve the problem in a matter of years.

This would be a satisfying solution were it not for the fact that Vancouver's housing starts and completions graph is a giant up and to the right. Vancouver has been building supply. At this point if you're a politician in Vancouver that is promising to solve the problem in a few years you're going to get dumped. People wanted this problem solved yesterday.

Re: Vancouver signs first agreement in Canada with Airbnb for short-term rentals

#20

Post by bdamm »

Tiktaalik wrote: post #18
notatoad wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>In reality supply creation is constrained by real world factors such as time and labour supply and "just add more supply" is not so easy. It takes time. Ultimately, supply is constrained by cost. And in Vancouver, that's not an issue - if the regulation allows it, converting a single family home to a multi-unit dwelling is so ridiculously profitable that the solution to the housing crisis is to simply change zoning…

You're absolutely correct. Vancouver is unlike SF in that it has no issues building new residential buildings. At the moment housing starts in Vancouver are at all time highs, unprecedented for decades, and yet vacancy remains sub zero and housing is very unaffordable. This suggests that even these unprecedented levels of supply creation are unable to meet demand, and there are more issues at play than a lack of supp…

This is even more clear when you contrast housing supply to population growth. Population growth in Vancouver, Canada has been stable; almost linear, and relatively low. Meanwhile, housing supply has exploded across the region. Yet, housing remains unobtainable to the vast majority of residents. What is going on? It clearly is not a supply problem, and perhaps even worse, there could be a massive supply glut that for reasons I can only speculate has not become available for occupancy.
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