Live data from Hacker News

Is Facebook Really Scarier Than Google?

nautil.us

31–40 of 360 posts

Re: Is Facebook Really Scarier Than Google?

#31
post #19

Isn't this rhetoric getting tiresome at some point?

This has been a long time coming. https://twitter.com/georgesoros/status/964471195793068032 I posted about it here, but was heavily downvoted because mentioning this man automatically brands you as a conspiracy theorist. It's really naive to think he doesn't know the news before it's news.

It's really naive to think that this only became news in 2018.

It's rather obvious that both Facebook and Google are conglomerates that know way more then they should about us.

That has been the case since at least 2012. There's nothing newsworthy about that.

Re: Is Facebook Really Scarier Than Google?

#32

I know Google is profiling me and harvesting my data. But it's not using me to harvest my friends information. I know Google is targeting ads at me - and they maybe AB tested. But those ads are from real companies or organisations - they aren't fake bots or astroturf groups algorithmically designed to tell me what I want to hear. I'm sceptically watchful of Google, I feel I have a social contract with them where they…

>> But it's not using me to harvest my friends information Of course. It already has your friends’ information.

And your friends agreed to it, same as you. That's the difference.

Re: Is Facebook Really Scarier Than Google?

#33

If FB goes down for one day it is a minor inconvenience. If Google goes down for one day, I am literally at a standstill. No Maps, no Search, no GMail, no YouTube, no Photos! I don't know how I will get through the day without these services :( As such, with Google, I am more than ok them using my data to target me ads since it does feel a mutually beneficial relationship.

> As such, with Google, I am more than ok them using my data

Woah, that was a very different conclusion than I was expecting. The post builds up to how terribly dependent you are, but concludes with "so I'm very happy".

I see your reasoning and your point, but don't forget what kind of relation this is (where you pay very little to nothing for most services, money-wise...).

Re: Is Facebook Really Scarier Than Google?

#34
The main difference from my point of view, as a Google and a non-Facebook user, is that Google actually provides useful services. From GMail, to Maps, Drive, etc. Facebook (as I see it at least) provides zero value. It creates toxic echo-chambers and countless studies have proven again and again that it makes people miserable.

Re: Is Facebook Really Scarier Than Google?

#35
post #18

It's a lot simpler to avoid Google though. I've been using DuckDuckGo for a while now and the switch was simple. There's no network effect like with Facebook, hence less ennui about it.

I feel like this is at least slightly disingenuous. Sure, your friends keep you hooked on FB but there are other methods of communication.. Even if they're FB owned (like whatsapp). But google owns the most dominant browser right now, they're spidered into most websites using their analytics engine. They handle more email than the next 5 providers combined, and they have the most dominant mobile OS on the market.

Does any part of that address his point though? Almost every single one of those things you mentioned is part of some federated system, which means you can be the only person in the world not using it and not have your usage affected too heavily.

Your friends can include you in text groups no matter what carrier and phone OS you use, they can include your email even if your mail server is located under your couch, you can visit websites even if you use Firefox or Safari or IE or Opera or Iceweasel or Edge or Dolphin or.... By contrast, you can't decide to be the only one in your friend group without a Facebook acct and still be included in eg event planning and photo sharing, unless your friends make th extra effort to keep a separate channel open for you. That's what the term network effects _means_.

(Yes, I'm entirely aware that the canned response to this is "they're not your real friends then" or "get better friends"; I personally don't use Facebook for anything but event planning/accepting and the occasional communication with an extended member of the family without having to go through a chain of getting people's numbers. But as to the people that don't recognize any potential benefit to a tool like FB for coordinating meaningful social events, I can't help but wonder if they just have very tiny social circles. This isn't a bad thing by any means, but it's bizarre to assume that that's how everyone socializes)

Re: Is Facebook Really Scarier Than Google?

#36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> But it's not using me to harvest my friends information Of course. It already has your friends’ information.

And your friends agreed to it, same as you. That's the difference.

Doesn't this also apply to Facebook? Maybe you could argue it's not current data, but at some point Facebook reached ubiquity, and collected enough data to make sophisticated inferences about everyone.

Re: Is Facebook Really Scarier Than Google?

#37

If FB goes down for one day it is a minor inconvenience. If Google goes down for one day, I am literally at a standstill. No Maps, no Search, no GMail, no YouTube, no Photos! I don't know how I will get through the day without these services :( As such, with Google, I am more than ok them using my data to target me ads since it does feel a mutually beneficial relationship.

With Mapquest, DuckDuckGo, Protonmail, AOL Videos and imgUrl?

Re: Is Facebook Really Scarier Than Google?

#38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> But it's not using me to harvest my friends information Of course. It already has your friends’ information.

And your friends agreed to it, same as you. That's the difference.

Not necessarily. Address book access rights on Android and iOS are a gray area. I don’t have control over whether you hand over my contact info to whoever you want. So are incoming emails from outside Gmail, and a bunch of other things. So is tracking of accounts that aren’t even logged into anything, and demographic inference on top of that, etc, etc. I mean we are literally talking about a company that tracks the entirety of the web, and has an overwhelming share of people’s email, search, and video history. You’d have to be unbelievably naive to think that this information can’t be abused.

That’s not to say Google currently abuses it, but some of the ads stuff is way into the gray area territory imo, and god help us all if they decide to get evil for real.

Re: Is Facebook Really Scarier Than Google?

#40

Your ISP tracking your every move is scarier than all of them after the ISP privacy bill passed. At least Facebook and Google give you something for it and you can route around them if you desire. No routing around ISPs unless you use a VPN but even then they are blocking those. Broadband/cable/telcos capture everything you do and can now sell that information and do[1]. That bill was the pre-cursor to removing net n…

Thanks for reminding me about this. I'm seriously thinking about getting a VPN subscription again.
Post reply on HN