Portal as a required college text • Hacker News Board

Re: Portal as a required college text

#31

Post by RodgerTheGreat » Sat, Aug 21, 2010, 1:17 PM UTC

phaedrus wrote: post #24

houseabsolute wrote: post #22

Honestly, this is cool, but also a travesty. Portal is in no way on the same level as some of those other works of literature, and certainly not enough time has passed to see if it survives the years of literary criticism that will be required to tell if it ever should be. It seems like a move that simply panders to . . . well, whoever is pandered to by moves like this.

I disagree. I think Portal is on the same level as a great work of literature. As an aspiring game developer myself, I feel one could analyze Portal as "the perfect game" in exactly the same sense that a classic may be described as "the perfect novel". That's not to say it's the greatest or cannot be topped, but that it took an idea, explored it to its ultimate depths, combined it with supporting elements, and finish…

Unlike a great novel, automatic updates have changed the ending sequence to better lead into the sequel- a trend that we will likely see more frequently in the future. Does that interfere with a work being "perfect"?

Re: Portal as a required college text

#32

Post by m-photonic » Sat, Aug 21, 2010, 1:17 PM UTC

Groxx wrote: post #9

[deleted] wrote: post #3

[deleted]

It still boggles me that that's Ebert's position. I've played plenty of games which were significantly better narratives than the vast majority of movies I've seen, much less that's out there. A good game can be far more immersive and emotionally powerful than a book or movie, unless you've set yourself up to not notice it.

List a few for me, if you don't mind.

Re: Portal as a required college text

#33

Post by azim » Sat, Aug 21, 2010, 2:52 PM UTC

It's kind of strange requiring a video game as a required activity for all students. Subjects like reading and mathematics are things taught in grade school and have required proficiency levels before admittance in to university, but there are a lot of people out there who just don't play video games. Portal is not a difficult game for people who play video games on occasion, but people who don't will have an awfully difficult time.

Re: Portal as a required college text

#34

Post by jcw » Sat, Aug 21, 2010, 3:01 PM UTC

Won't this just make people hate Portal and think it's boring?

Re: Portal as a required college text

#35

Post by whimsy » Sat, Aug 21, 2010, 3:44 PM UTC

skybrian wrote: post #17

_delirium wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems to be mostly missing the point of games as a medium, though--- everything you're discussing is what a novelization of Portal might have been about. In that case, why even pick a game at all? To me at least, the interesting aspects of games as a new form of media are the things that you couldn't imagine one-to-one translated into a novel, like experimentation, interactivity, exploration, rule systems, etc.…

The narrative wouldn't work the same if it were a novel or a film. To take a simple example, watching someone else being reluctant to incinerate the Weighted Companion Cube would only work as part of a screwball comedy. If you have to do it yourself, it's still a funny situation but it feels a bit different. And if you want to focus on the game, there is an interesting game mechanic, too.

Agreed. I spent a long time looking for a loophole... especially since that's the first level with a broken wall.

Re: Portal as a required college text

#36

Post by whimsy » Sat, Aug 21, 2010, 3:45 PM UTC

jcw wrote: post #34

Won't this just make people hate Portal and think it's boring?

Haha! I hope not, but it would make me giggle if Portal suffered the same slings and arrows as classics of literature.

Re: Portal as a required college text

#37

Post by whimsy » Sat, Aug 21, 2010, 3:47 PM UTC

Eliezer wrote: post #26

Don't get me wrong, Portal is an awesome game. But he considered Planescape: Torment too, and went with just Portal? Where's Fate/Stay Night or Tsukihime? I can't respect this college.

Planescape: Torment is significantly longer than Portal. For non-gamers, even, it would be an epic time investment.

* I did not downvote.

Re: Portal as a required college text

#38

Post by Fargren » Sat, Aug 21, 2010, 5:09 PM UTC

patio11 wrote: post #5

_delirium wrote: post #2

Calling it a "book" is weird, but in the right context, culturally/technically/socially significant games aren't any weirder a required item than, say, films that also meet those criteria, and studying important films has been pretty well established for decades. Portal is a slightly strange choice, though, because of how new it is. I would imagine the course doesn't usually choose books or films from the past 5 year…

Classic videogames didn't really go for the self-aware pretentiousness that makes Portal a compelling choice for academic study. (I mean that in the nicest possible way: it is a game that knows it is better written than 90% of the stuff on the shelves next to it, and it isn't afraid to hit you over the head with that fact over and over and over again.)

The Longest Journey or Deus Ex may be good choices that qualify for that criteria. But they are longer than Portal, and their aged graphics can make them unappealing.

Re: Portal as a required college text

#39

Post by Fargren » Sat, Aug 21, 2010, 5:17 PM UTC

RodgerTheGreat wrote: post #31

phaedrus wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. I think Portal is on the same level as a great work of literature. As an aspiring game developer myself, I feel one could analyze Portal as "the perfect game" in exactly the same sense that a classic may be described as "the perfect novel". That's not to say it's the greatest or cannot be topped, but that it took an idea, explored it to its ultimate depths, combined it with supporting elements, and finish…

Unlike a great novel, automatic updates have changed the ending sequence to better lead into the sequel- a trend that we will likely see more frequently in the future. Does that interfere with a work being "perfect"?

I don't think it does. Just because it's perfect doesn't mean it can't be made better, or that it can't be modified to better suitit's enviroment. The gameplay, dialog and story that made it so fantastic remain, and the modifciation, if anything, shows how powerful and different it's medium is. Being able to modify a work after it's been delivered is a very new concept, but I don't see how it harms the work. Of course, we do have the special editions of Star Wars, that many people see as a negative thing, but I think new ways for the creator to interact with his work are a good thing.

Re: Portal as a required college text

#40

Post by Fargren » Sat, Aug 21, 2010, 5:23 PM UTC

gommm wrote: post #25

Groxx wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It still boggles me that that's Ebert's position. I've played plenty of games which were significantly better narratives than the vast majority of movies I've seen, much less that's out there. A good game can be far more immersive and emotionally powerful than a book or movie, unless you've set yourself up to not notice it.

I'd agree if you said some book or movies... But I can't find any game (or movies) that is as immersive as a great book...

I accidentaly upvoted this, so I may as well comment. There are few really great and engaging games, but there are out there. The Longest Journey is better written than a lot of (good) movies. Eternally Us[1] actually made me shed a tear at the end, wich no book ever made me do. Games are a powerful, meaningful medium. Very immature and maybe slower at maturing than others, but I have little doubt than in time games will be as appreciated as books or movies are today.

[1]http://www.bigbluecup.com/games.php?action=detail&id=130...