Live data from Hacker News

Tesla’s New Car Smell

mondaynote.com

31–40 of 205 posts

Re: Tesla’s New Car Smell

#31
post #23

Disclaimer up front: I work for a Tesla competitor. People believe funny things about Tesla and Elon. But before I talk about that, let me say: I've been extremely impressed with Tesla and Elon for their ability to eventually deliver, and to build unparalleled excitement around electric vehicles. I believe Elon is truly a visionary. Now for the funny things: 1. You can throw money at problems to fix them: If you do t…

Just to 3

Unknown to analysts, investors and the hundreds of thousands of customers who signed up to buy it, as recently as early September major portions of the Model 3 were still being banged out by hand, away from the automated production line, according to people familiar with the matter.”

https://www.wsj.com/articles/behind-teslas-production-delays...

Re: Tesla’s New Car Smell

#32
post #4

The author is only comparing production ability and basic mechanical stats with the Bolt and Leaf. I am on the Model 3 waiting list for the Autopilot. Heck, it could be gas powered and I'd be on the waiting list for the Autopilot. I don't need full autonomous. I just want the best system, and currently Tesla has it. So hopefully they figure out their production issues. I also just bought a 2018 Honda Odyssey as our m…

It's not that your Honda can't (edit: actually their specific model can't, others from Honda can), its that Honda didn't want to enable it under 20 miles an hour because they want to discourage use off highways. I wouldn't be surprised if your Honda has a similar to AP1 Mobileye sensor in the mirror, I know my Volt does and Chevy intentionally limited engagement to 15 mph and up even though once engaged, it can work down to 1 mph. There are Hondas with AP style autonomy via comma.ai and that's just supplementing the sensor set with an Android phone and some basic CAN bus access.

Tesla's "innovation" is being willing to ship "beta" features for better or for worse.

It's not like Chevy couldn't have used the same data it uses for LKA to do lane centering, by as Tesla has shown, doing that can cause "wrong" steering outputs (I.e. ones that would put you in a ditch), and opens up the system for abuse by the driver.

Where as only using it for LKA means when the sensor is "wrong" the worst case is a wrong LKA warning instead of doing what Teslas do on "fail road". And you can't abuse LKA easily. I've noticed my Volt seems to be tuned so that if you try and abuse LKA and let go of the wheel, it'll take longer and longer to apply corrective steering, causing the car to "ping pong". But if you hold the wheel and intentionally try and pass a line with firm, but wrong steering input (as you'd expect with a distracted driver), it will smoothly guide you along the lane as precisely as a human driver would.

To me Super Cruise is a more major innovation than Autopilot. AP works in more situations but the situations it works in, that Super Cruise doesn't, are situations where AP is notorious for having bugs that vary from inconvient to downright dangerous. It reminds me of how people compare AP to other equivalent systems like Distronic + based on disengagements, ignoring the fact that more disengagements can be preferable if it means avoiding events where there isn't a disengagement but the system is wrong

Re: Tesla’s New Car Smell

#33
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to agree completely. Autopilot is miles ahead. While I'm waiting for my 3 preorder, I took a test drive a Model S. I haven't felt as moved by a technology like Autopilot since I first swiped on the first iPhone. Coincidentally, we're in the market for a 2018 Odyssey as our family car too.

Off topic - but curious of why Odyssey > Sienna? ...as I'm having a hard time deciding.

Android Auto and Apple CarPlay is in Honda (and lots of other cars). Toyota is currently in a state of rejecting these integrations, which I think is foolish.

Re: Tesla’s New Car Smell

#34
> What seriously worried me was a July 2016 visit to Tesla’s manufacturing plant... In an exchange with a trusted industry observer, I found out that he had had exactly the same experience only weeks ago, but he couldn’t write about it by “virtue” of the NDA he’d signed.

Did Gassée's NDA expire or what? He's certainly divulging details about the factory. He previously wrote that he couldn't write about his visit due to an NDA.[1]

[1] https://mondaynote.com/chairman-elons-great-leap-forward-68f...

Re: Tesla’s New Car Smell

#35
post #4

The author is only comparing production ability and basic mechanical stats with the Bolt and Leaf. I am on the Model 3 waiting list for the Autopilot. Heck, it could be gas powered and I'd be on the waiting list for the Autopilot. I don't need full autonomous. I just want the best system, and currently Tesla has it. So hopefully they figure out their production issues. I also just bought a 2018 Honda Odyssey as our m…

It's not that your Honda can't (edit: actually their specific model can't, others from Honda can), its that Honda didn't want to enable it under 20 miles an hour because they want to discourage use off highways. I wouldn't be surprised if your Honda has a similar to AP1 Mobileye sensor in the mirror, I know my Volt does and Chevy intentionally limited engagement to 15 mph and up even though once engaged, it can work…

I live in Southern California. On highways is exactly where I want to use it under 20 mph!

Re: Tesla’s New Car Smell

#36
post #2

I wonder if there are many side effects from this sort of schedule slippage apart from just needing more time. If the only result is the schedule slipping, then investors can continue giving to Tesla with the assurance that things happen "eventually". If this is actually indicative of greater disorganization, then perhaps we'll see more issues later on. But my impression is that this is _the_ major issue for Tesla...…

The biggest problem is the one the author mentioned at the end of the article: If Tesla takes too long, they might be outpaced by more mature competitors. That demand will move elsewhere or dissipate if it isn't capitalized on.

Re: Tesla’s New Car Smell

#37
post #4

The author is only comparing production ability and basic mechanical stats with the Bolt and Leaf. I am on the Model 3 waiting list for the Autopilot. Heck, it could be gas powered and I'd be on the waiting list for the Autopilot. I don't need full autonomous. I just want the best system, and currently Tesla has it. So hopefully they figure out their production issues. I also just bought a 2018 Honda Odyssey as our m…

My subaru’s adaptive cruise control has been pretty amazing. I still have to do most of the steering, but that’s probably a good thing in terms of keeping me engaged. I can easily go hundreds of miles from stop and go to 80 and cruising without touching the gas though.

Re: Tesla’s New Car Smell

#38
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you think Tesla doesn't fundamentally grasp it? This anecdote? The plural of anecdote is not data. Your wikipedia link on the Toyota Production System says it was developed between 1948 and 1975. So it look 27 years to develop. Working for a startup myself, I'm very aware of Kanban and other TPS-inspired work processes. Sometimes in startup-hair-on-fire-mode that all goes out the window and I think that's…

It's pretty self-evident if you read the next two paragraphs: > (Ironically, the Fremont plant is prominently featured in “The Machine…” as the locus of the ultimately failed GM-Toyota cooperation.) > As I watched Tesla’s messy, hiccuping line, with workers dashing in to fix faulty parts in place, my mind travelled back to the Honda plant I had visited years ago in Marysville, Ohio. Clean, calm, everything moved smoo…

I really find it hard to believe they don't understand the TPS. Sure. Maybe. I don't know.

It seems more likely to me their "goal" (pun intended for those readers of "The Goal") is the TPS but their particular supply chain may not currently allow for it.

Re: Tesla’s New Car Smell

#39
post #16
post #4

The author is only comparing production ability and basic mechanical stats with the Bolt and Leaf. I am on the Model 3 waiting list for the Autopilot. Heck, it could be gas powered and I'd be on the waiting list for the Autopilot. I don't need full autonomous. I just want the best system, and currently Tesla has it. So hopefully they figure out their production issues. I also just bought a 2018 Honda Odyssey as our m…

Don't the BMWs of the world have this tech integrated into their cars too? I get Tesla's cars are really good, but my understanding was that it wasn't "miles ahead".

Yes many other's have autopilot-like tech. BMW's system on the 7-series and newer 5-series is about as good as Tesla's AP1 and better than AP2. AP2 is still far behind the curve.

Re: Tesla’s New Car Smell

#40
post #15
post #2

I wonder if there are many side effects from this sort of schedule slippage apart from just needing more time. If the only result is the schedule slipping, then investors can continue giving to Tesla with the assurance that things happen "eventually". If this is actually indicative of greater disorganization, then perhaps we'll see more issues later on. But my impression is that this is _the_ major issue for Tesla...…

Production issues in car manufacturing can be solved by adding more resources just like adding more programmers to a software project can. Nope, not at all.

What I'm saying isn't that the production issues get solved. What I'm saying is that if you have enough money, delays aren't as much of an issue in itself. You can wait things out.

Valve surely has a lot of developement issues leading to delays, but they still got Half Life 2 out and made a bunch of money off of it.

Post reply on HN