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Women Engineers on the Rampant Sexism of Silicon Valley

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Re: Women Engineers on the Rampant Sexism of Silicon Valley

#31
post #19

> There are these tiny microaggressions that happen when people know you're a person of colour, they wanna know your origin, [...] I ask white males such questions, and have been asked such questions as a white male. In environments where a significant fraction of the people do not come from there, asking where you come from is a normal ice breaker and opening to get to know someone. If I avoid such questions when so…

I was the one that said that in the video. Firstly - a disclaimer: a lot of what was said in the video are snippets taken out of context. But to be fair, we're in an era of fast media, and I understand why everything can't be published. I think Kayla did a good job with the edit, given it's a ~4min video. I think you make a very valid point about the fact that it's a nice ice breaker to ask someone where they're from. But you're speaking as a white male in America, and hence in the majority. For someone like me, who's from Chennai, India, I understand it's a great ice breaker - if the other person knew something about my hometown. Asking a person for the place of origin because they want to establish common ground is a great thing, but when ignorance and misinformation is in the mix - it can get tiresome. Most people know of India from media, which is not a great portrayal of my country. Eventually the where do you "originally" come from, is followed by "Did you have an arranged marriage" or "are you here on a visa". There are assumptions that get tied into my place of origin or color - that don't necessarily exist if I'm white. I've often times been asked about how long I've lived in America simply because people don't understand why my accent isn't more Indian. I did point out to Kayla that this is not something that happens in the tech industry alone. It happens everywhere - and as a foreigner I understand that's a cultural tax I have to pay. There's a reason I used the word "microaggressions" - it's because anecdotally, this is a perfectly fine thing. When added up, it can definitely take its toll. I don't think the answer is to avoid asking such questions - but to understand that people who're not familiar with a certain culture may be misinformed or carry biases that could put the person that's in the minority in a delicate situation. Just understanding that and acting accordingly should do the trick.

Re: Women Engineers on the Rampant Sexism of Silicon Valley

#32
post #31
post #19

> There are these tiny microaggressions that happen when people know you're a person of colour, they wanna know your origin, [...] I ask white males such questions, and have been asked such questions as a white male. In environments where a significant fraction of the people do not come from there, asking where you come from is a normal ice breaker and opening to get to know someone. If I avoid such questions when so…

I was the one that said that in the video. Firstly - a disclaimer: a lot of what was said in the video are snippets taken out of context. But to be fair, we're in an era of fast media, and I understand why everything can't be published. I think Kayla did a good job with the edit, given it's a ~4min video. I think you make a very valid point about the fact that it's a nice ice breaker to ask someone where they're from…

So if I go to Chennai, India, people won't ask me where I'm from?

Or should I fear death by a thousand micro-agressions?

How should the good people of Chennai act accordingly to the delicate situation they might put me in for asking too many where-are-you-from's?

edit: missing quotation mark

Re: Women Engineers on the Rampant Sexism of Silicon Valley

#33
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was the one that said that in the video. Firstly - a disclaimer: a lot of what was said in the video are snippets taken out of context. But to be fair, we're in an era of fast media, and I understand why everything can't be published. I think Kayla did a good job with the edit, given it's a ~4min video. I think you make a very valid point about the fact that it's a nice ice breaker to ask someone where they're from…

So if I go to Chennai, India, people won't ask me where I'm from? Or should I fear death by a thousand micro-agressions? How should the good people of Chennai act accordingly to the delicate situation they might put me in for asking too many where-are-you-from's? edit: missing quotation mark

I believe you're missing the point I made, or maybe I'm not articulate enough. I don't think there should be any fear. Just awareness. "How should the good people of Chennai act accordingly to the delicate situation they might put me in for asking too many where-are-you-from's?" - That's the thing though, it might not stop with where-are-you-from, and as long as a few people in the group are aware of that, there'll be enough empathy to go around to prevent you from getting "othered". I did mention that it happens everywhere. Nothing is ever done with malicious intent. I can also go into what exactly the context was for this question. Kayla asked me something along the lines of have I faced any issues in the tech industry being a woman of color. And I said "No. Not that I can think of. Sometimes, when people know that you're a person of color, tiny microaggressions....[blah blah] work. But that happens everywhere, not just the tech industry. But I don't think I've ever been discriminated against for it".

Edit: Or it might just stop with "where-are-you-from" :) Which is even worse. Don't get me wrong, I'm not against small talk. And I understand how difficult it can be to think about all this when your sole intention is just to be friendly with another person or build some common ground. I've been scenarios where, after I've told people where I'm from, I've been asked if I've ever had sex (since it's common knowledge that pre-marital sex in India is frowned upon) and I've been in scenarios where people don't know how to take the conversation forward. But I've also been in conversations where the outcome has been a fantastic cultural conversation! My only point being, there's more of a chance that you get asked these questions when you're in a minority group and if you've had certain bad experiences, you might get your shackles on when that question gets repeatedly asked. Is that making any sense? I'm happy to be educated if I'm missing something or should be thinking about this differently.

Re: Women Engineers on the Rampant Sexism of Silicon Valley

#34
post #3

"There are these tiny microaggressions that happen when people know you're a person of colour, they wanna know your origin, they wanna know your [...], they wanna know a bunch of things about you that don't really matter when it comes to work" Or maybe, you know, someone just tries to get to know their coworkers better with small talk, because getting along with people, being friendly and knowing a little bit about t…

I'm sorry you feel alienated Kenji. That was not my intention at all. There's more context in my comment above. If you have the time, do take a minute to read.

Re: Women Engineers on the Rampant Sexism of Silicon Valley

#35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By your definition, what Hitler did wasn't "wrong". Moral relativism is a slippery slope.

In my mind, you're free to think whatever you want, no one should ever be punished for thought-crime. If you go your whole life thinking Jews are the scum of the Earth that's your business, as long as you keep it in your own head. If you speak those opinions and lose a job, well, that's the consequences to those beliefs. If you act on those beliefs and kill people, then you'll be tried and convicted of murder. Belief…

This is what I agree with. And thought crime is exactly what the article is insinuating.

Re: Women Engineers on the Rampant Sexism of Silicon Valley

#36
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The answer is to avoid such questions with everyone :) This is a barrier I also had to cross as someone who is involved in a lot of interviewing (software engineers). I used to always break the ice with things like "Where ya from?" or "How long have you lived NYC?". To me it was natural to ask that when first meeting someone. But over time I realized it makes some people uncomfortable. For example, someone with a thi…

Just wait a bit, and with the way things are going, "Did you see all the snacks?" will be declared the thought crime against fat people. I prefer using the same language in interviews as we do in office. If the candidate gets offended, chances are, he would be offended on the first day on the job; better weed those out early.

Good ol' slippery slope.

Re: Women Engineers on the Rampant Sexism of Silicon Valley

#37
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So if I go to Chennai, India, people won't ask me where I'm from? Or should I fear death by a thousand micro-agressions? How should the good people of Chennai act accordingly to the delicate situation they might put me in for asking too many where-are-you-from's? edit: missing quotation mark

I believe you're missing the point I made, or maybe I'm not articulate enough. I don't think there should be any fear. Just awareness. "How should the good people of Chennai act accordingly to the delicate situation they might put me in for asking too many where-are-you-from's?" - That's the thing though, it might not stop with where-are-you-from, and as long as a few people in the group are aware of that, there'll b…

I haven't had the conversation go in that route since high school (my family came to Canada in the late 90s, when I was 10 - I was born in Chennai, too), and by that point I had learned to turn the tables pretty well. Maybe I've been lucky, and maybe it's just that Canadians approach race differently. Every one of us is an 'other', and it doesn't seem to bother us a whole lot. Most of us anyway, Kellie Lietch doesn't seem to agree.

Re: Women Engineers on the Rampant Sexism of Silicon Valley

#38

I have to ask this, but isn't it possible that the media's obsession with sexism in the tech is backfiring? I think the best thing we could do to alleviate sexism would be to bring more women into the industry. How do we expect to do that if the impression they're getting is that it's filled with mysogynistic pigs and creeps? I'm not saying this stuff should be swept under the rug, but many tech companies have gone t…

> have gone to great lengths to accommodate women (as they should)

Why should they put more effort to accommodate women than they do to accommodate men, isn't that sexist?

Re: Women Engineers on the Rampant Sexism of Silicon Valley

#39
post #20
post #3

"There are these tiny microaggressions that happen when people know you're a person of colour, they wanna know your origin, they wanna know your [...], they wanna know a bunch of things about you that don't really matter when it comes to work" Or maybe, you know, someone just tries to get to know their coworkers better with small talk, because getting along with people, being friendly and knowing a little bit about t…

So, I am a white dude who was pretty skeptical about the whole microaggression thing. But I changed my mind. My girlfriend is biracial and just watching how strangers interact with her taught me a lot about the state of race relations in this country. Microaggressions (I am going to abbreviate this as MA) are more like micro-transgressions. In the vast majority of cases, the people who commit MA are not seeking to hu…

What is your solution to this problem then?
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