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China's $1T Plan to Shake Up the Economic Order

nytimes.com

31–40 of 198 posts

Re: China's $1T Plan to Shake Up the Economic Order

#31
The scary part is china's protectionism. Small nations and businesses have so little possibilities to operate in china without getting robbed of IP or being outcompeted by state supported domestic ventures.

I fear the future of China being stronger superpower than the USA.

Re: China's $1T Plan to Shake Up the Economic Order

#32
Oh yes, China, with the authoritarian government lead by a dictator, and has proven to engage in unfair trade policies and dumping of goods, and supports an evil regime in north korea, is going to help the region grow! /s.

Seriously, only third world countries welcomes Chinese loans that will never be be repaid. The 'Belt and road' scheme has been shown to be a failure thus far. No smart nation wants to have its economy/community/jobs/manufacturing destroyed by an evil government, just for cheap, shoddily made goods

Besides, China has no trillions to spend. It's massively in debt, suffers from capital outflow and rich fleeing the country. It has middle income problem and demographics issues. It's heyday was 2007.

Re: China's $1T Plan to Shake Up the Economic Order

#34
post #27

“Pursuing protectionism is just like locking oneself in a dark room,” Mr. Xi told business leaders at the World Economic Forum in January. I might agree with Mr. Xi, but the Great Firewall of China is a higher wall of protectionism than anything the West has against the Chinese. Forcing foreign companies to partner with Chinese companies and then transfer all of their closely held technologies and industrial processe…

Those two aren't mutually exclusive. America is an incredibly protectionist country as well if you aren't aware.

http://www.eulerhermes.com/economic-research/publications/Pa...

In the past 3 years, America has introduced far more protectionist measures than other countries.

Re: China's $1T Plan to Shake Up the Economic Order

#35
post #10
post #8

Bravo China. Instead of overspending on military conquer the world thru trade and investment.

I also applaud that idea. But I do wonder if it's possible to protect/expand trade without military activity. Historically it seems military expansion is the tip of the spear for trade expansion.

The best example is probably the opium wars between China and Britain.

Historically the superpower role has shifted hands thru wars. But not with the superpower in direct conflict with the ascending power. The British empire fell apart after 2nd world war in which Britain was a victor. However Britain was bankrupt and all capital that could move had fled to USA.

Re: China's $1T Plan to Shake Up the Economic Order

#36
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

without IP these high margin American technology is copyable, which China has already shown they can do that.

American technology companies don't rely on IP restrictions as much as they used to. You couldn't copy Facebook, Google, Apple, or Amazon's products and services effectively on a global scale even if they had no IP restrictions. And China is the second largest market for American movies, which absolutely require IP law to function. So I think this concern is overstated.

Sure. But I predict in 10 years we will all buy Huawei networking kit and everyone will have forgotten there ever was a company called Cisco (for example).

Re: China's $1T Plan to Shake Up the Economic Order

#37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have an answer for you. But, I'd rather spend tax dollars building railroads in SE Asia than blowing up the Middle East. #Iraq2Trillion #neverforget

Dude, it is not 2 trillion by a long shot. It is 268k ( https://www.iraqbodycount.org/ )

Dollars not deaths.

Re: China's $1T Plan to Shake Up the Economic Order

#38

Oh yes, China, with the authoritarian government lead by a dictator, and has proven to engage in unfair trade policies and dumping of goods, and supports an evil regime in north korea, is going to help the region grow! /s. Seriously, only third world countries welcomes Chinese loans that will never be be repaid. The 'Belt and road' scheme has been shown to be a failure thus far. No smart nation wants to have its econ…

>>and supports an evil regime in north korea

For what it's worth, the only reason China "supports" North Korea is because they don't want to deal with the massive influx of refugees that would result from that regime's collapse.

If you think about the strain that a few million Syrian refugees are putting on Europe, you can hardly blame China for this stance.

Make no mistake though: China has no love for North Korea. I mean who would want a crazy mad man armed to the teeth right in their backyard?

Re: China's $1T Plan to Shake Up the Economic Order

#39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have an answer for you. But, I'd rather spend tax dollars building railroads in SE Asia than blowing up the Middle East. #Iraq2Trillion #neverforget

Dude, it is not 2 trillion by a long shot. It is 268k ( https://www.iraqbodycount.org/ )

Did you really think he was talking about the body count?(Have 2 trillion people even ever lived...?) He's clearly talking about the projected cost of that war.

Re: China's $1T Plan to Shake Up the Economic Order

#40

Oh yes, China, with the authoritarian government lead by a dictator, and has proven to engage in unfair trade policies and dumping of goods, and supports an evil regime in north korea, is going to help the region grow! /s. Seriously, only third world countries welcomes Chinese loans that will never be be repaid. The 'Belt and road' scheme has been shown to be a failure thus far. No smart nation wants to have its econ…

> destroyed by an evil government, just for cheap, shoddily made goods

This attitude is why China managed to get itself out of poverty while other countries don't seem to get anywhere. While you may think phones made in China are cheap, shoddily made goods, guess what, there are billions of people in this world who don't have the financial resources of the 300M Americans to afford an iPhone.

The American model is to have a company create an amazing product at a very high cost (iPhone, Tesla) and have it "trickle down". What ends up happening are these companies monopolize the market, force everyone onto their ecosystem, and extract as much money as possible. Things do progress, but everyone gets locked into a system, and the company lacks incentive to keep innovating.

In China, they create cheap products, but in a few years, every single person has a smartphone. The technology is democratized and because of that, new technology can be built off that initial platform - now they are by far way ahead in things like fintech. Who cares if the product was initially cheap and shoddily made when the people there are upgrading their devices every year. The "cheap" device maker Xiaomi dropped to fourth place in China because consumers demanded more and more high end products. Within the space of a few years, the Chinese phone makers are making quality phones.

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