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Notepad++ leaves SourceForge

notepad-plus-plus.org

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Re: Notepad++ leaves SourceForge

#31

Post by smackfu »

tzs wrote: post #22
melvin wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, it's a law and they're following it. Sourceforge and Google are not responsible for that. As far as North Korea, um... so, when the US kills 25 Afghans at a wedding ("oops! my video-game like predator drone readout made it look like they were definitely terrorists") what does that mean? I guess France should stop exporting Notepad++ to the US. Correct? No, the issue is whether 'exporting' a text editor to N.…

"No, the issue is whether 'exporting' a text editor to N. Korea would REALLY make any difference. Perhaps the clueless, bribed, caviar-stuffed and prostitute-sucked morons in Congress think so, but most of them can hardly even send an email." Think about this for a few milliseconds before ranting. How would you write a law that blocked the bad "exports" while allowing the good "exports" through? It's much less work t…

This is the same well where zero tolerance policies come from.

Re: Notepad++ leaves SourceForge

#32

Post by smackfu »

melvin wrote: post #21
jojopotato wrote: post #8

Gah, I wish there was a contact link on there that wasn't twitter. The typo "fondamental" bugs me, then when looking for contact info I found "Developper" done over and over.

Sadly, Notepad++ has never been the most professional project out there. It's decent, though I tend to think people who are obsessed with it need to back away from Windows for a second and try Kate. So, I think this might illustrate that high on their features list should be 'English Spellcheck'.

Ha. Try a professional project named "Kate".

Re: Notepad++ leaves SourceForge

#33

Post by Locke1689 »

mojuba wrote: post #23
icefox wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and 'aply' and 'gorvernment'?

Impatient Hacker English?

No it's just bad English and lazy. When I publish something that I write in German and expect people to read it, I go through the trouble of running it through a German language spellchecker. Doing otherwise is lazy and rude to your audience.

Re: Notepad++ leaves SourceForge

#34

Post by melling »

melvin wrote: post #20
melling wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The law is ridiculous or complying with it? I think some people live in a fairy tale world. North Korea, for example, recently sunk a South Korean ship killing 41 people. There really are bad people in the world. Personally, I think the Cuba issue is legacy and it's probably time to resolve it. The fear of communism is long gone. Now I think it's just a matter of a bunch of rich voters in Florida who want their natio…

I agree, it's a law and they're following it. Sourceforge and Google are not responsible for that. As far as North Korea, um... so, when the US kills 25 Afghans at a wedding ("oops! my video-game like predator drone readout made it look like they were definitely terrorists") what does that mean? I guess France should stop exporting Notepad++ to the US. Correct? No, the issue is whether 'exporting' a text editor to N.…

So, you are arguing that an accidental killing is the same as an intentional one?

You do realize that the US killings were an accident, correct? Friendly fire...kind of like this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Tillman

Here's a friendly fire list on Wikipedia. Most probably don't get cataloged.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friendly_fire

So, it's safe to assume it will happen again in every current and future war.

The point is that wars are very ugly and imprecise. Now, I'm pretty sure that it is a war crime to intentionally kill innocent civilians, so yes, if the US starts doing this, I expect the rest of the world place embargos.

At any rate, you are free to leave your comfort zone and make the world a better place. It's easy to complain and have all the answers. It's an entirely different matter to effect change. I'm sure at least half of those morons in Congress would have nailed you to the wall for making such a flawed case trying to prove your point.

[Edit] I guess I only focused on his first statement. I addressed the common statement "Why does it hurt to allow the export of a text editor" in another post. In short, it's easier to make a blanket law. gcc, for example, could be used for weapons software development. Emacs? Well, it can run a version of Lisp! :-) Notepad++? Never used it. Anyway, who has time to evaluate every piece of software for export restrictions. Yes, people can get around them anyway, but that doesn't mean there shouldn't be speed bumps.

Ugh. We should forbid political posts on Hacker News. Such a time suck...

Re: Notepad++ leaves SourceForge

#35

Post by mquander »

melling wrote: post #26
mquander wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd wager it's even less work not to block anything. Answer me this: 1) Can you point to scientific evidence, or even a carefully-reasoned argument, that blocking U.S.-hosted free software from "rogue" states like North Korea, Syria, or Iran either A) is a meaningful deterrent to the governments of such states or B) has a desirable effect on the citizens of those states? 2) Do you think it's likely that the people wi…

1) No I can't. Can you prove the opposite? No. Pointless argument. Yes! So why even make it? Can you find North Korea on this map? http://paradoxoff.com/north-korea-night-map.html I bet there aren't too many hackers staying up until dawn hacking on Notepad++. Why does a country with no electricity want to be on this list? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_states_with_nuclear_wea... People in power, or anyone else…

The reason I made point 1 is because our default decision should always err on the side of freedom. Why would you bother restricting anything unless you can identify some benefit to restricting it? It's more work, and maximizing freedom often results in positive results when the freedom turns out to be useful in a way you didn't expect.

For all I know, not a single man in North Korea knows what the hell Notepad++ is. Maybe no North Korean citizen would have any use for any U.S.-hosted software at all. If that's true, then isn't that yet another reason not to restrict it?

Is it really too complicated to say: "Data is not subject to export control laws, unless it's in category X or Y (like cryptosystems are, under current law) in which case the following rules apply: so-and-so." I think it's disingenuous to suggest that officials writing export laws "don't have the time" to make any distinctions on such a large class of exports. Our federal laws are rarely guilty of having insufficient detail.

Additionally, I'd reiterate what other people have already mentioned, which is that if the (yet to be justified) goal is actually to stop these entities from using all this software, the goal is impossible. The law burdens U.S. hosts as much as it burdens foreigners, who can just use a proxy or a mirror in another country.

Re: Notepad++ leaves SourceForge

#36

Post by Groxx »

melling wrote: post #15
dtf wrote: post #3

Google does the same: http://code.google.com/projecthosting/terms.html Pretty ridiculous in this day and age.

The law is ridiculous or complying with it? I think some people live in a fairy tale world. North Korea, for example, recently sunk a South Korean ship killing 41 people. There really are bad people in the world. Personally, I think the Cuba issue is legacy and it's probably time to resolve it. The fear of communism is long gone. Now I think it's just a matter of a bunch of rich voters in Florida who want their natio…

Ooooh kay, lets look at the practicality of this:

If North Korea (as a government) wants something from Sourceforge's site, will blocking access to the site really prevent them from doing so for more than a second?

Meanwhile, if a North Korean wants something from Sourceforge's site, why are you blocking it? Similar to above, they can still get it, but all you're doing is punishing the civilians, most of whom have little to nothing to do with the government. How is this helpful?

Now, which of those two is the US Government at war with?

They were implying the law is ridiculous. Complying is the cost of existence in a nation.

Re: Notepad++ leaves SourceForge

#37

Post by [deleted] »

tzs wrote: post #22
melvin wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, it's a law and they're following it. Sourceforge and Google are not responsible for that. As far as North Korea, um... so, when the US kills 25 Afghans at a wedding ("oops! my video-game like predator drone readout made it look like they were definitely terrorists") what does that mean? I guess France should stop exporting Notepad++ to the US. Correct? No, the issue is whether 'exporting' a text editor to N.…

"No, the issue is whether 'exporting' a text editor to N. Korea would REALLY make any difference. Perhaps the clueless, bribed, caviar-stuffed and prostitute-sucked morons in Congress think so, but most of them can hardly even send an email." Think about this for a few milliseconds before ranting. How would you write a law that blocked the bad "exports" while allowing the good "exports" through? It's much less work t…

[deleted]

Re: Notepad++ leaves SourceForge

#38

Post by Devilboy »

melling wrote: post #34
melvin wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, it's a law and they're following it. Sourceforge and Google are not responsible for that. As far as North Korea, um... so, when the US kills 25 Afghans at a wedding ("oops! my video-game like predator drone readout made it look like they were definitely terrorists") what does that mean? I guess France should stop exporting Notepad++ to the US. Correct? No, the issue is whether 'exporting' a text editor to N.…

So, you are arguing that an accidental killing is the same as an intentional one? You do realize that the US killings were an accident, correct? Friendly fire...kind of like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Tillman Here's a friendly fire list on Wikipedia. Most probably don't get cataloged. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friendly_fire So, it's safe to assume it will happen again in every current and future war. T…

I think you may have missed his point

Re: Notepad++ leaves SourceForge

#39

Post by jafl5272 »

jmillikin wrote: post #19

SourceForge doesn't have much choice in this, unless they're willing to violate US law. For what it's worth, SourceForge allows projects to determine whether their downloads are subject to export laws, and to disable the blocks[1]. Support for this was added in early February, several months before the notepad-plus-plus.org domain was registered. There's no technical or legal reason why N++ had to move off SourceForg…

Agreed. As soon as this setting became available, I simply went it and set it to "does not incorporate ... encryption of any kind" for all of my projects that do not use encryption.
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