Good story. Well played! (Note: it's "cede control", not "secede control".)
How I got my dream job in the tech industry without a CS degree
31–40 of 189 posts
Re: How I got my dream job in the tech industry without a CS degree
#32The author's comment on access to a mediocre/unknown university instructor for a high fee vs free access to a very good set of lectures (Khan) is one of the doubts that led me to quit my job as a college instructor. I had kind of the existential "what are we doing here?" question -- why are students coming here and paying us money when better instruction is available for free online? Combined with a couple of educati…
The actual education part of a university is really a small part of what students leave with. What you're really getting is a network of professors (with ties to employers) and other students that become your friends. Once everyone leaves the university you now have a large network of people that can vouch for your technical knowledge and personality. What you don't get with an online education is the proximity to ot…
Well I feel cheated, as an introvert that never stayed in touch with anyone from college and who went into a wildly divergent field from my major. I didn't experience either of the major benefits you're touting; the education was everything. I still think it was worth it, but I absolutely think it could have been done better and cheaper online.
Re: How I got my dream job in the tech industry without a CS degree
#33I don't think getting a programming job without possessing a degree is that rare of a story anymore. You can teach yourself anything online. I am actually self-taught developer and when I started, I was working primarily with people who had degrees, occasionally coming across another self-taught developer. I started about 12 years ago, but now I am increasingly encountering self-taught programmers who can run rings around developers with degrees.
Re: How I got my dream job in the tech industry without a CS degree
#34Damn, that guy busted his butt. I got a creative writing degree from a decent but relatively unheard of Texas state school, spent a month studying Javascript, got into a bootcamp, worked for the bootcamp as TA for 3 months, then got a ~120k/yr job in the bay area within a month of leaving the bootcamp. I had 3 projects on my resume and absolutely nothing technical to show for the time period prior to the bootcamp, ot…
May I politely say "fuck you" for getting a 120k job after completing a bootcamp. Starting salary of 120k/yr for someone with a 3-month vocational program and an unrelated undergrad degree? That is literally insane.
Hah, you may, it does seem pretty crazy, doesn't it?
I would say that the reason it seems crazy isn't rational, however. If I was forced to break down the reasons that this worked, I would condense it to three:
1. I focused entirely upon a single skill that is highly desired right now (Javascript / Web Development in JS/HTML/CSS/JS Frameworks). I didn't "waste" any time learning other programming languages, systems designs, or even anything beyond the most basic of algorithms and algorithm design. These things are not necessary to build webapps in Angular/Backbone/React/Vanilla. My bootcamp (hack reactor) assisted with a very focused curriculum.
2. I was able to condense this learning to a short period of time by being utterly focused on it and nothing else, all day, every day. I was learning the one skill I needed to be employable from 8a-9p Mon-Sat for 3 months, and then 8a-5p Mon-Fri for another 3 months (when I was a TA).
3. I am a highly sales-trained ex-recruiter, and know through experience and training exactly what I need to do to get a job, fast. This includes being an annoying little bastard ;) but also includes streamlining my processes (never spending more than 10 minutes on a single application, etc) and being very good at turning a "no" into a "oh, ok, let's talk more."
Re: How I got my dream job in the tech industry without a CS degree
#35A bit odd to put "dream job" in the title and start the article with a picture of him in the Googleplex... But in the end find out he doesn't work at Google. In any case, I meet people on the regular working at top tech companies without a STEM degree, some without any degree at all. The stories are all pretty similar: 1) Teach themselves programming 2) Make lots of actual software
My path, with an allegedly irrelevant degree (History and Philosophy of Science) was 1) tinker with computers as a kid 2) go to university and study something I wanted to learn about, randomly learning C in passing (from a friend and a stolen copy of turbo c) because I was interested 3) get a job at a small local ISV, qualified by having a degree in anything and knowing how to write simple code 4) spend 4 years as an…
My early steps were pretty similar as well, tho I kind of "hacked" my way into the industry by getting an internship
1) Tinker with computers as a kid
2) Go to University to study something I wanted to learn (Biochemistry) - took CS101 to learn some programming
3) Go to grad school for something else unrelated (economics)
4) Work in something unrelated
5) Learn programming in spare time.
6) Quit job. Learn programming hardcore. Enroll in CS classes at a University to become eligible for internships.
7) Land an internship at Google.
After that, it was smooth sailing.
Re: How I got my dream job in the tech industry without a CS degree
#36The author's comment on access to a mediocre/unknown university instructor for a high fee vs free access to a very good set of lectures (Khan) is one of the doubts that led me to quit my job as a college instructor. I had kind of the existential "what are we doing here?" question -- why are students coming here and paying us money when better instruction is available for free online? Combined with a couple of educati…
The error you make in your reasoning is that all learning is equivalent for all students. This is clearly not the case given the various surveys of the effectiveness of MOOCs, Universities, and 'trade' schools.
I think it is great that the author was able to make this work for their learning style and their goals. Some people require the 'deadline' aspects of turning in assignments getting graded. Others learn best by exploring a topic and experimenting with it to test its limits and to test their understanding. Still more learn best by working with an expert and watching their work and asking questions to understand their process.
None of these are 'best' or 'worst' or even moderately comparable. It can help a person to be more successful if they can identify what environment is most effective for them to learn something and then optimizing around creating that environment.
So to answer your question, the teacher/lecture/lab/homework environment works well for some learners. They can readily exchange money for additional knowledge which they can then turn into more money by applying it to a job.
Re: How I got my dream job in the tech industry without a CS degree
#37This article is full of assumptions.
First of all you don't need a college education to work in software development. I have a Bachelor's, but not in CS and I have known some great developers who have no college at all. I am completely self-taught. You have endless time to learn this stuff on military deployments. Developers, who don't suck, are in crazy demand... particularly if you have web skills and don't suck. I rarely see CS graduates writing original JavaScript applications without large frameworks, for example.
Secondly, it appears his dream job is in the bay area. If you are young and single this might be true. The Y Combinator folks claim it is the place to be to start a company, but for everybody else it is expensive. I can have a larger house in Texas for 20% of the cost and reduced cost of living across the board. That said I see little value in moving to the bay area because I doubt there is a corporate dream job that is going to pay me 5x more to live just as well. I have known several people who have moved from CA to TX just to afford a house (any house).
Finally, there are major differences between development skill and marketing skill (promotions). You can suck at one and rock at the other, but only one of those is going to make a solid first impression and only one will actually define your value after a year of employment.
Re: How I got my dream job in the tech industry without a CS degree
#38The author's comment on access to a mediocre/unknown university instructor for a high fee vs free access to a very good set of lectures (Khan) is one of the doubts that led me to quit my job as a college instructor. I had kind of the existential "what are we doing here?" question -- why are students coming here and paying us money when better instruction is available for free online? Combined with a couple of educati…
There's a big difference between having an instructor and learning things from a book or video lectures. An instructor can correct your mistakes and give you feedback. A book or a video can't do that. Some people presumably don't have a right kind of discipline to study on their own. This is why remote study programs can be a lot more difficult to complete vs. on-site programs. EDIT: There's a known effect, discussed…
When I was in school, I struggled heavily with certain concepts. I had one really smart math teacher who couldn't have cared less for average math students (e.g. me), and another math teacher who was not that knowledgeable with math. So after struggling for years, I stopped advancing in that direction. Keep in mind this was a long time ago, pre-YouTube.
But now? I can take an online course taught by people who actually know how to teach. And if I don't understand something, I can rewind and play the lecture over again. Or I can take it a slower pace. Or most importantly, I can go on YouTube and find other teachers who explain a concept differently. It is highly improbable that any single teacher can explain everything perfectly to everyone so it's quite amazing that one can basically go on YouTube for alternative explanations that make more sense to them.
In fact, if you look at highly rated videos on say, math concepts, you'll find plenty of students who leave comments like, "Wow, you explained this better than my teacher did" or "I wish you were my teacher." Students MAY have the capacity for concepts, but the teachers could also be poor at teaching. How many students actively blame themselves for being 'too stupid' or 'bored' and instead give up because they don't feel empowered by their paid teacher to overcome the knowledge gap?
No doubt there's clear advantages in having an innovator or brilliant person guide you in your studies. And certainly if one were to do a Masters or PhD, having an advisor is essential and invaluable. That said, for a lot undergrads / students, I would be surprised if the majority of them had a strong relationship with their professors/teacher.
I believe that online courses and college should exist out there in the world, as there are advantages to both. But I think because the feedback portion of it so dependent on the quality of the teacher, that it's not a guaranteed advantage.
Re: How I got my dream job in the tech industry without a CS degree
#39Earlier quoted context omitted.
The actual education part of a university is really a small part of what students leave with. What you're really getting is a network of professors (with ties to employers) and other students that become your friends. Once everyone leaves the university you now have a large network of people that can vouch for your technical knowledge and personality. What you don't get with an online education is the proximity to ot…
Well I feel cheated, as an introvert that never stayed in touch with anyone from college and who went into a wildly divergent field from my major. I didn't experience either of the major benefits you're touting; the education was everything. I still think it was worth it, but I absolutely think it could have been done better and cheaper online.
I also didn't get any networking opportunities through professors, and not a lot through friends. I think my undergrad degree was worth it just as a signal to employers, but I would gladly trade back my graduate education and the right to say I ever attended in return for cancelling all the student loans I (stupidly) took out to fund it.
Re: How I got my dream job in the tech industry without a CS degree
#40The author's comment on access to a mediocre/unknown university instructor for a high fee vs free access to a very good set of lectures (Khan) is one of the doubts that led me to quit my job as a college instructor. I had kind of the existential "what are we doing here?" question -- why are students coming here and paying us money when better instruction is available for free online? Combined with a couple of educati…
The actual education part of a university is really a small part of what students leave with. What you're really getting is a network of professors (with ties to employers) and other students that become your friends. Once everyone leaves the university you now have a large network of people that can vouch for your technical knowledge and personality. What you don't get with an online education is the proximity to ot…
The value of networking in undergrad is grossly overstated. Sure, you make friends, but you don't need college for that. And the overwhelming majority of friends I made in college haven't kept in touch with their professors. In fact, outside of one guy who graduated at the top of his class, I doubt said professors would even remember them.