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Telecommunications company Avaya files for bankruptcy

reuters.com

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Re: Telecommunications company Avaya files for bankruptcy

#31

Post by n_coats »

keytapper wrote: post #15

I have been working at avaya for the last couple years and I have been scratching my head trying to understand how this company works and how it got into this situation. On one hand its a company thats hasn't made a profit in 10 years but on the other it takes in a billion every quarter. When you look at the numbers it turns out it is paying tens of millions to service the interest on its massive debt... it would be…

As striking as it is for a company to take in a billion every quarter and still fail to make a profit, it is all to common in the telco space. I know from experience at one of the big 4 wireless carriers in the US. The inefficient mismanagement and spending decisions, specifically related to operations were astounding.

I started a company (shameless plug: fifthsignal.com) that makes software to fix a lot of the inefficiencies we saw. One of our biggest concerns was whether or not other carriers operated as poorly as what we had experienced. After talking with several carriers outside of the US, it would seem that most are actually worse off.

I believe someone in this thread made a comment towards the "legacy" telco space. Based on my experience, I would say it's a "dinosaur" industry that has seen very little delivered innovation in recent times.

*Most of my experience relates to operations/OSS solutions, with very little insight into telco BSS space.

Re: Telecommunications company Avaya files for bankruptcy

#32

Post by Steeeve »

dqv wrote: post #2

They really went too hard with the whole proprietary software thing (but who am I kidding, telecom loves proprietary). Even though I know very little about Avaya, my assumption every time I have tried to look them up is that they are locked down and difficult to integrate with. If I'm wrong, they sure as hell spent a lot of time leading me to believe I'm right.

Can confirm that integrations (and a lot of system interactions) are needlessly painful. Telephone systems are generally rough around the edges to begin with, but Avaya is a prize winner.

Re: Telecommunications company Avaya files for bankruptcy

#33

Post by tsomctl »

sheraz wrote: post #4

A friend of mine closed his company in 2013 and had a full avaya system with 40 phones and latest software that he could not even give away. Eventually some kids from a local hackerspace came and hauled away the whole lot. They were after the headsets and lcds.

I think this is pretty standard in the pbx business. The manufacturers don't give out the complete documentation for the system, so it is useless without paying money to your local dealer. Your local dealer doesn't want to help you with a used system, he'd prefer to sell you a brand new one. Source: I work for a dealer.

Re: Telecommunications company Avaya files for bankruptcy

#34

Post by builtinbuffalo »

dqv wrote: post #2

They really went too hard with the whole proprietary software thing (but who am I kidding, telecom loves proprietary). Even though I know very little about Avaya, my assumption every time I have tried to look them up is that they are locked down and difficult to integrate with. If I'm wrong, they sure as hell spent a lot of time leading me to believe I'm right.

You are correct. It's been a closed system in a space that was opened by OSS like Asterisk in the early 2000s. Their solutions cost 5-10x's similar ones available from competitors. Add in their late embrace of cloud and it's not hard to see why they went bankrupt.

Re: Telecommunications company Avaya files for bankruptcy

#35

Post by oddstorms »

n_coats wrote: post #31
keytapper wrote: post #15

I have been working at avaya for the last couple years and I have been scratching my head trying to understand how this company works and how it got into this situation. On one hand its a company thats hasn't made a profit in 10 years but on the other it takes in a billion every quarter. When you look at the numbers it turns out it is paying tens of millions to service the interest on its massive debt... it would be…

As striking as it is for a company to take in a billion every quarter and still fail to make a profit, it is all to common in the telco space. I know from experience at one of the big 4 wireless carriers in the US. The inefficient mismanagement and spending decisions, specifically related to operations were astounding. I started a company (shameless plug: fifthsignal.com) that makes software to fix a lot of the ineff…

But that's not the problem here, as everyone is explaining. The problem is that they are wasting all their money paying massive interest on massive debt. One of those times that a business gets caught up in tie same cycle as is usually reserved for people. It's quite treasonous and the first things to get hacked are decents who are just trying to get by.

Re: Telecommunications company Avaya files for bankruptcy

#36

Post by builtinbuffalo »

dade_ wrote: post #24
fenesiistvan wrote: post #6

I can't understand till today how they (and others) are capably to sell PBX hardware when there are free and low cost software alternatives which runs on common x86 hardware. FreePBX for Linux ( https://www.freepbx.org/ ) or MizuSwitch for Windows ( https://www.mizu-voip.com/Software/VoIPServer/FreeSoftswitch... ) are very good free alternatives which can be managed also by non-technical people with zero telecom expe…

First, Avaya does run on common x86 servers as well as virtualized and has for many years. Linux and Xen if fact. Many implementations of freeswitch/asterisk fell apart as they simply don't scale to thousands of users. Yes, I know about Kamailio. Scale doesn't just mean have 50,000 endpoints register to the system and handle the busy hour call volume. It needs to be secure (Avaya encrypts H.323 and SIP very easily (C…

This is true, but new competitors also haven't been around as long as Avaya. Before Asterisk and other software hit the market, there were four players - Avaya, Cisco, Mitel and Nortel. Now there are dozens of large players and hundreds of medium sized ones. These companies are gaining market share in the enterprise - just checkout the exhibitor list for enterprise connect 17.

Re: Telecommunications company Avaya files for bankruptcy

#37

Post by dv35z »

A bit off-topic, but a call-out to those tech consultants who often work remotely (using VOIP to interface with POTS):

At the previous tech company I worked at, we used Avaya VOIP phones (5000+ employees). The phones could be used at home (with a remote access point - RAP - plugged into your router). One thing that always impressed me was just how clear, crisp, and low-latency the audio was for VOIP. I'd pick up the handset and the dial-tone was immediately there; while on conference calls, I could easily interject comments (whereas with Skype, there is always an annoying delay). While working at this company, I would literally bring this big ol' corporate deskphone with my while traveling (e.g. south america, London, etc), and it was great having a perfect call connection anywhere there is decent internet.

My question is - for those folks who work remotely 100% (or often): Have you found a VOIP phone solution that really works well for you? I bough an Ooma handset, and I'm sorry to say that the audio is still clouded, muffled, and has latency. Plus, the handset (the home/residential one) just feels... flaky. Without having much experience with other VOIP phone systems, I'm really looking for a solid corporate desk phone (handset, but also very clear remote headset) - it's got to be as good as an in-office phone, interface with POTS, and also be portable for travel. I do a lot of consulting, and am on phone calls sometimes 4-5+ hours a day, so it'd be great to have a comfortable powerful solution that can handle this.

Would love to hear anyone's thoughts and experience on this. My Ooma purchase was an bit of a costly experiment...

Re: Telecommunications company Avaya files for bankruptcy

#38

Post by bogomipz »

qwrusz wrote: post #13

Not to take away from challenges of the legacy telecommunications industry right now, but this article slides in the private equity LBO part of Avaya's story at the very end - and then only hints at what happened here. I hope the pensioners and benefits obligations get paid the money they are owed ASAP, because this is a classic story of private equity (Silver and TPG) financially engineering a cash-siphon from a dyi…

I agree, looking at this statement it sounds like this is a result of private equity loading the company up with debt. It sounds like problems are in the debt servicing post buyout.

>"The Santa Clara, California-based company has been burdened by debt stemming from an $8.2 billion buyout in 2007 by private equity firms Silver Lake Partners LP and TPG Capital LP, with $600 million coming due in October. Interest expense of more than $400 million a year has been pushing Avaya into losses."

Re: Telecommunications company Avaya files for bankruptcy

#39

Post by Periodic »

dv35z wrote: post #37

A bit off-topic, but a call-out to those tech consultants who often work remotely (using VOIP to interface with POTS): At the previous tech company I worked at, we used Avaya VOIP phones (5000+ employees). The phones could be used at home (with a remote access point - RAP - plugged into your router). One thing that always impressed me was just how clear, crisp, and low-latency the audio was for VOIP. I'd pick up the…

I'm surprised how much, as consumers, people will put up with in terms of bad audio. I think cell phones really helped lower the bar when the connections were bad but the mobility was unrivaled. I used to hate calling someone's cell phone because the land-line was generally crystal clear and responsive.

Granted, things have improved a lot over the last 10 years, both in cell phones and internet calling. However, video conferencing still seems pretty obsessed with figuring out a way to get high definition video and both audio quality (from the connection and the equipment) and latency haven't improved significantly for major video conferencing solutions.

Re: Telecommunications company Avaya files for bankruptcy

#40

Post by pramsky »

dv35z wrote: post #37

A bit off-topic, but a call-out to those tech consultants who often work remotely (using VOIP to interface with POTS): At the previous tech company I worked at, we used Avaya VOIP phones (5000+ employees). The phones could be used at home (with a remote access point - RAP - plugged into your router). One thing that always impressed me was just how clear, crisp, and low-latency the audio was for VOIP. I'd pick up the…

I work for a hosted VoIP company.

>> it was great having a perfect call connection anywhere there is decent internet.

Thats the catch. The internet service has to be good enough for VoIP. Many times, having the right router is key.

>> I'd pick up the handset and the dial-tone was immediately there;

As long as the handset thinks its registered, dial tone will be immediate.

As far as the Ooma experience goes, if you can change the codecs for your device to use something like G722 rather than the normal PCMU/PCMA or GSM, call quality should be good. What handset did you get for your Ooma service ?

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