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Please Jobhop as much as Possible

angryasian.posterous.com

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Re: Please Jobhop as much as Possible

#31

Post by DanielBMarkham »

j_baker wrote: post #25
DanielBMarkham wrote: post #9

I feel somewhat passionately about this, and I've always thought this job-hopping debate was extremely skewed. There are people who want loyalty and dedication above all else -- both from themselves and from their workers and employers. Then there are people who want challenge, risk, excitement, and travel. From what I've seen, if you want to learn meta-tech (and not just tech in your neck of the woods) you need to g…

Just out of curiosity, what exactly do you do? Do you do consulting?

I do work-for-hire, yes. I did so much stuff that now people pay me to help them learn how to run teams like a startup and not like the IRS.

And yes, I miss the code-monkey and hands-on PM work. That's why in my free time I still code as much as I can. And why I like hanging out on the net with you lug-heads so much (smile)

So now instead of the building being on fire, they have 50 teams that are taking 4 times longer than industry norms to deliver functionality. How do you fix that without shutting down the place, firing a lot of people, or causing more harm than good?

The thing you run into with this type of work is that everybody thinks they are unique, and they are, to some degree. But also there are a lot of similarities. For somebody without a big breadth of experience who is just reading a book and trying to apply it, it's not so clear what is unique about their situation and what isn't. So there's more to it than training. You have to have a lot of hands-on experience watching what works and what doesn't. Call it strategic technology management consulting.

Actually it's a much bigger fire, but the sense that you are delivering something of immediate value is lost. I've found that as you get better and better at delivering solutions, they give you fuzzier and fuzzier problems, many times with no clear deliverable. Moving from delivering stuff on-time and under-budget to fuzzy-world is not easy.

My job used to be the sharpest guy in the room. Now my job is to make a hundred other guys be the sharpest guy in the room. I don't light the light; I turn the brightness up 40%.

And there is no way you can be a full-timer at BigCorp for 20 years and do what I do.

Re: Please Jobhop as much as Possible

#32

Post by [deleted] »

pw0ncakes wrote: post #23

When older people complain about supposedly whiny, entitled, self-centered and disloyal young people, exactly one work comes to mind: Projection. We came of age while society fell apart. We're in our 20s and won't be able to own a house or have children until our mid-30s, due to the still-absurd housing costs, absent job security, and lack of a decent health care system. The Boomers were born into an affluent, forwar…

[deleted]

Re: Please Jobhop as much as Possible

#33

Post by bmj »

jrockway wrote: post #19
ctd wrote: post #16

Jobhop yes, but please be careful--you might just hop yourself right out of the market. My resume resembles Swiss cheese. I have a whole bunch of short-term jobs, and holes where I've taken off a year or more to pursue my own ideas (I'm "freelancing" during that time). Fortunately I was able to get another job after the last break, but I didn't seem to be getting as many callbacks as I'm used to. This, coupled with m…

I doubt it. We are desperate for anyone who can answer our interview questions correctly. We would not care at all where you have worked, how much time you have taken for yourself, etc. Just know something about programming.

Agreed. My resume looked the same for a time, and I had no trouble landing interviews and getting offers.

That said, I've been with my current employer for three years now, and I have no intention of leaving, thanks to their flexible work schedule.

Re: Please Jobhop as much as Possible

#34

Post by philk »

It's important to remember that Calacanis and Suster are writing advice from a selfish standpoint. Of course they want the people they hire to keep working for their companies no matter how shit the conditions are. If I were them I'd be writing about how the best way to get ahead was to come and work for me for free.

It doesn't mean it's actually useful advice for someone who wants to get ahead.

Re: Please Jobhop as much as Possible

#35

Post by jdminhbg »

pw0ncakes wrote: post #23

When older people complain about supposedly whiny, entitled, self-centered and disloyal young people, exactly one work comes to mind: Projection. We came of age while society fell apart. We're in our 20s and won't be able to own a house or have children until our mid-30s, due to the still-absurd housing costs, absent job security, and lack of a decent health care system. The Boomers were born into an affluent, forwar…

This is like a dispatch from Bizarro World.

My parents' Carter-era mortgage was for 15%+, mine signed last year (well before my mid-30s!) was for 5.5%.

The rest of my counterexperience is just anecdote, so I'll spare everyone the details and just ask:

Do you have even a single shred of evidence backing up your nostalgia for things you didn't actually experience?

Re: Please Jobhop as much as Possible

#36

Post by sunir »

Having also graduated high school in the middle of the dot.com bubble, graduated undergrad in the middle of the dot.com bust, and been hustling ever since, I am also a job hopper. I don't have much trouble landing work because I have a particular work ethic.

It's a simple heuristic. If I can leave my employers in a good state, I go ahead and job hop. I stay until the project is done, and then I feel ok leaving or staying and take on the next project. Very often there is no next project lined up, so I am compelled to look around.

I think if you have a habit of abandoning jobs in the middle of projects, leaving your employers holding the bag, you are a flake and a risk to hire.

Re: Please Jobhop as much as Possible

#37

Post by pw0ncakes »

jdminhbg wrote: post #35
pw0ncakes wrote: post #23

When older people complain about supposedly whiny, entitled, self-centered and disloyal young people, exactly one work comes to mind: Projection. We came of age while society fell apart. We're in our 20s and won't be able to own a house or have children until our mid-30s, due to the still-absurd housing costs, absent job security, and lack of a decent health care system. The Boomers were born into an affluent, forwar…

This is like a dispatch from Bizarro World. My parents' Carter-era mortgage was for 15%+, mine signed last year (well before my mid-30s!) was for 5.5%. The rest of my counterexperience is just anecdote, so I'll spare everyone the details and just ask: Do you have even a single shred of evidence backing up your nostalgia for things you didn't actually experience?

Interest rates were high because there was an inflation problem in the 1970s. Also, house prices then would be considered a bargain by today's standards-- you could buy a middle-class house in Seattle or San Francisco for what would be about $200-250k today.

I am certainly not saying that the 1960s and '70s were a perfect era. They were far from that. What I'm saying is that it wasn't nearly as difficult to advance. You had to seriously fuck up in order not to advance by default. College practically guaranteed a good job.

People who slacked off in college during the '60s entered boardrooms in the '70s and '80s. That sort of access and opportunity isn't handed out to our generation; far from it. We face stiffer competition for (except at the very top) less reward, at least economically speaking.

Re: Please Jobhop as much as Possible

#38

Post by [deleted] »

pw0ncakes wrote: post #23

When older people complain about supposedly whiny, entitled, self-centered and disloyal young people, exactly one work comes to mind: Projection. We came of age while society fell apart. We're in our 20s and won't be able to own a house or have children until our mid-30s, due to the still-absurd housing costs, absent job security, and lack of a decent health care system. The Boomers were born into an affluent, forwar…

[deleted]

Re: Please Jobhop as much as Possible

#39

Post by jdminhbg »

pw0ncakes wrote: post #37
jdminhbg wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is like a dispatch from Bizarro World. My parents' Carter-era mortgage was for 15%+, mine signed last year (well before my mid-30s!) was for 5.5%. The rest of my counterexperience is just anecdote, so I'll spare everyone the details and just ask: Do you have even a single shred of evidence backing up your nostalgia for things you didn't actually experience?

Interest rates were high because there was an inflation problem in the 1970s. Also, house prices then would be considered a bargain by today's standards-- you could buy a middle-class house in Seattle or San Francisco for what would be about $200-250k today. I am certainly not saying that the 1960s and '70s were a perfect era. They were far from that. What I'm saying is that it wasn't nearly as difficult to advance.…

"Interest rates were high because there was an inflation problem in the 1970s."

Of course they were, that's the point. That was the crappy economic situation that generation lived under; it was worse than today's, at least from a home-buying perspective.

And again, you still don't have any actual evidence for your other idyllic depictions.

Re: Please Jobhop as much as Possible

#40

Post by gaius »

jdminhbg wrote: post #35
pw0ncakes wrote: post #23

When older people complain about supposedly whiny, entitled, self-centered and disloyal young people, exactly one work comes to mind: Projection. We came of age while society fell apart. We're in our 20s and won't be able to own a house or have children until our mid-30s, due to the still-absurd housing costs, absent job security, and lack of a decent health care system. The Boomers were born into an affluent, forwar…

This is like a dispatch from Bizarro World. My parents' Carter-era mortgage was for 15%+, mine signed last year (well before my mid-30s!) was for 5.5%. The rest of my counterexperience is just anecdote, so I'll spare everyone the details and just ask: Do you have even a single shred of evidence backing up your nostalgia for things you didn't actually experience?

It's more relevant that the Boomers had 10 workers per retiree whereas we have 3 workers per retiree. The Boomers took the next two generations prosperity and used it all up themselves.
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