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Reddit Is Tearing Itself Apart

gizmodo.com

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Re: Reddit Is Tearing Itself Apart

#31

Post by rrggrr »

This all amounts to a lack of imagination on the part of Reddit's management.

-- If the issue is doxxing, which was occurring to some degree in sites with cross-membership with r/the_donald, then enhanced auto moderation is needed. The tools are out there.

-- If the issue is so-called "hate speech" then give users the ability to filter content they find distasteful.

-- If the issue is click-bait to offensive or illegal content, then again, there are ample techniques and 3rd party resources for warning about, reporting, filtering and discouraging user click-through.

What concerns me is that Gizmodo and Reddit can only think in terms of banning speech. Combined with the recent pile-on over "fake news", I worry that expression on the internet is vulnerable to shill pollution, coercion and overly zealous social equality advocacy.

The irony of not applying innovative technology to problems at Reddit is thick, almost suffocating.

Re: Reddit Is Tearing Itself Apart

#32

Post by wheelerwj »

sanswork wrote: post #24
tux1968 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every sub is allowed to moderate itself how it chooses. Plus, there wasn't a similar outcry when Correct The Record, swamped the site with its paid advocacy before the election. Either you believe in free speech, that sunlight is the best disinfectant, and that good ideas will prevail in the end -- or you don't.

It was stuff like idiots accusing everyone that didn't support trump of working for CTR that has lead to such a backlash. > sunlight is the best disinfectant What do you think that disinfectant looks like? It is rarely people changing ideas it is more often society excluding people. Which is what is happening here. You don't have to give every idiot a platform to believe in free speech. You don't have to give them an…

> You don't have to give every idiot a platform to believe in free speech

I mean, technically, you do.

Re: Reddit Is Tearing Itself Apart

#33

Post by tux1968 »

sanswork wrote: post #24
tux1968 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every sub is allowed to moderate itself how it chooses. Plus, there wasn't a similar outcry when Correct The Record, swamped the site with its paid advocacy before the election. Either you believe in free speech, that sunlight is the best disinfectant, and that good ideas will prevail in the end -- or you don't.

It was stuff like idiots accusing everyone that didn't support trump of working for CTR that has lead to such a backlash. > sunlight is the best disinfectant What do you think that disinfectant looks like? It is rarely people changing ideas it is more often society excluding people. Which is what is happening here. You don't have to give every idiot a platform to believe in free speech. You don't have to give them an…

I think that Reddit will be throwing away one of its most essential contributions to the internet if it resorts to servicing just one side of this debate.

If you're not confronted with the best arguments of your adversaries, you won't understand, learn, or prevail.

Re: Reddit Is Tearing Itself Apart

#34

Post by JurgenJugglar »

>these two women are "as fat as whales" and furthermore that they deserve to be derided based on physical appearance because of their expressed political opinions.

Comedic body shapes paired with comedic political views and philosophies.

What's wrong with it? They tried cheap virtue signaling and lost the bet. Boo hoo my sympathies.

To deride the visual and linguistic imagination of cognitive entities as "hate speech" is stupid.

"Oh no cognitive entities can generate from a set of infinite propositions and not those that fit within my limited range of experience and thinking ability"

Re: Reddit Is Tearing Itself Apart

#35

Post by faggotfromspace »

"Do you want ants? Cause this is how you get ants." is really appropriate here.

/r/the_donald is one of the few major subreddits that isn't anti-Trump (for example, see side of /r/jokes). When you confine half of your politically active user base to one sub, it's bound to become a monster. Calling it "problematic" and inventing a "hate speech" "code" doesn't somehow make it any less legitimate than any other Reddit community.

Re: Reddit Is Tearing Itself Apart

#36

Post by throwanem »

legodt wrote: post #12
wnevets wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you're right, its not even coded hate speech.

This is a good way to acrue massive, immediate backlash on HN. Calling alt-righters out for being neonazis and reminding people that hate speech isn't free speech is apparently over the line for a subset of users here.

Arrant falsehood does tend to gravel people, I suppose.

I'm not sure what anyone expects to gain by doubling down on the goodthink echo chamber that's just lost them an election. Emotional comfort, perhaps? I'm not without sympathy for the need - but that's a private matter. Governance in the US is public, and refusing to engage in the process merely cedes the field. Demonizing one's political opponents not only cedes the field but energizes them with just resentment, and I should think the events of this past month should suffice anyone as a lesson in why that might not be the best of all available tactics - but perhaps I extend more credit than due.

Re: Reddit Is Tearing Itself Apart

#37

Post by sanswork »

wheelerwj wrote: post #32
sanswork wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was stuff like idiots accusing everyone that didn't support trump of working for CTR that has lead to such a backlash. > sunlight is the best disinfectant What do you think that disinfectant looks like? It is rarely people changing ideas it is more often society excluding people. Which is what is happening here. You don't have to give every idiot a platform to believe in free speech. You don't have to give them an…

> You don't have to give every idiot a platform to believe in free speech I mean, technically, you do.

You are welcome to make use of your free speech rights without forcing other people to promote your speech. So no technically you don't.

Re: Reddit Is Tearing Itself Apart

#38

Post by wheelerwj »

a_bonobo wrote: post #23
harryh wrote: post #9

As someone who reads reddit fairly frequently, this doesn't reflect my experience on the site. In reality there is no unified reddit. I've taken a gander at /r/The_Donald a couple of times (mostly out of morbid curiosity) but other than those few times I've experienced very little impact of whatever it is they are doing. I read some sports subredits. I read some culture subredits. I read some of the bigger basic ente…

Looks like it's a bigger problem for moderators than for users: >“There have been unquestionably instances [where] moderators of other subreddits were targeted by users in The_Donald,” Reddit told Gizmodo, and the leaked chatlogs reveal the extent. >Some moderators had been flooded with constant harassing messages. “One threatened to kill my fucking dog,” a moderator pleaded in the leaked Slack chat. A The_Donald use…

Yeah, this is what was REALLY shitty about /u/Spez's debacle.

Profanity, hate speech, bullying, harassment aren't protected by free speech. And you see PLENTY of it coming out of the_donald. You don't have to tolerate that shit, you have every right to shut it down. But no, lets degrade ourselves by trolling the trolls.

What a strategic waste.

non-edit: greglindahl below me makes an excellent point on my choice of vocabulary. I won't edit my post, I'll just concede that I chose poorly while trying to articulate my point.

Re: Reddit Is Tearing Itself Apart

#39

Post by rrggrr »

batiudrami wrote: post #18
leurfete wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I took a look at their sub. I couldn't find any hate speech (though I ignored heavily downvoted comments). I'm also suspicious of "coded hate speech" since that concept grants license to attach racist connotations to just about any sentence. Is there a post on r/The_Donald that stands out to you as being hate speech?

It's typically the commenters. /r/The_Donald has rules which are supposed to stop hate speech (and typically they delete posts which are). However, with remarkable consistency, if you find someone spouting bigotry and hatred in another subreddit, they are almost always regular /r/The_Donald posters.

If this is argument for banning the subreddit, as opposed to the user, its no less scary than the offensive speech.

Re: Reddit Is Tearing Itself Apart

#40

Post by anigbrowl »

empressplay wrote: post #27
jwise0 wrote: post #21

This appears to have been flagbombed.

Because the article is, quite frankly, bullsh*t.

Posting a bowdlerized criticism (when swearing is perfectly OK on HN) is not very impressive compared to explaining what you think is wrong with it.
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