Google Comes Down on the Wrong Side of the TPP • Hacker News Board

Re: Google Comes Down on the Wrong Side of the TPP

#31

Post by mtgx » Mon, Jun 13, 2016, 3:58 PM UTC

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #24

niftich wrote: post #22

TPP the largest cross-national, non-military cooperation pact of our time. It's a huge power play with serious geopolitical consequences that go far beyond Google. Nonetheless, Google benefits from TPP because it enables them to shift operations to areas with lower costs, and not having their services blocked or censored in participating countries. They clearly feel that the advantages of TPP outweigh the drawbacks.…

> They clearly feel that the advantages of TPP outweigh the drawbacks. The problem is that's always how this works. You take a thousand people who each want something that will help them a lot and hurt everybody else a little. If you only look at them, they come out ahead, because they get +1200 from the thing they wanted and -1000 from the sum of all the little harms everybody else wanted. But everybody who isn't a…

That's a good analogy, because both the TPP and TTIP show extremely small gains to the GDP - and even those gains will only come after a decade or so:

http://www.wsj.com/articles/study-projects-tpp-will-provide-...

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20160127/08075533442/yet-m...

So even if it Google did manage to pass some small clause in there that's of great help to them, it doesn't mean that's a good trade deal overall.

Big Pharma could make the same argument, that TPP will be great for them! But terrible for citizens if it bans generics, and so on.

That's why overall you may get very little gains if at all with the TPP, but a few big corporations could see huge gains from this deal (to the expense of everyone else).

Re: Google Comes Down on the Wrong Side of the TPP

#32

Post by fredo699 » Mon, Jun 13, 2016, 4:12 PM UTC

Jeez, I don't like the TPP either, but can you really call it the "wrong" side? This is a perfect example of the kind of general arrogance that I see on the left which allows conservatives to mop the floor with leftists.

Re: Google Comes Down on the Wrong Side of the TPP

#33

Post by dhimes » Mon, Jun 13, 2016, 4:18 PM UTC

Buge wrote: post #20

mattnewton wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I only have additional anecdotes, but the claim has been leveled several times with varying degrees of convincing evidence. Here's another: http://siliconangle.com/blog/2016/06/10/google-is-manipulati...

They block all autocompletes of the form "firstname lastname liar" and other similar words. For example they block "hillary clinton liar". They allow "hillary liar". They block "donald trump liar". They block "george bush liar", they allow "bush liar".

I just got "donald trump liar ted cruz" as an autocomplete on google.

Re: Google Comes Down on the Wrong Side of the TPP

#34

Post by foota » Mon, Jun 13, 2016, 4:25 PM UTC

mtgx wrote: post #31

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They clearly feel that the advantages of TPP outweigh the drawbacks. The problem is that's always how this works. You take a thousand people who each want something that will help them a lot and hurt everybody else a little. If you only look at them, they come out ahead, because they get +1200 from the thing they wanted and -1000 from the sum of all the little harms everybody else wanted. But everybody who isn't a…

That's a good analogy, because both the TPP and TTIP show extremely small gains to the GDP - and even those gains will only come after a decade or so: http://www.wsj.com/articles/study-projects-tpp-will-provide-... https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20160127/08075533442/yet-m... So even if it Google did manage to pass some small clause in there that's of great help to them, it doesn't mean that's a good trade deal ove…

A benefit not reflected straight in the gdp are increases in welfare due to decreases in prices from competition.

Also, it sounds like this will also help other countries, which is generally a good thing.

That said, the IP provisions bug me.

Re: Google Comes Down on the Wrong Side of the TPP

#35

Post by Buge » Mon, Jun 13, 2016, 4:26 PM UTC

dhimes wrote: post #33

Buge wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They block all autocompletes of the form "firstname lastname liar" and other similar words. For example they block "hillary clinton liar". They allow "hillary liar". They block "donald trump liar". They block "george bush liar", they allow "bush liar".

I just got "donald trump liar ted cruz" as an autocomplete on google.

Yes, they allow longer things.

For example they block "donald trump lying". They block "hillary clinton lying", but they allow "hillary clinton lying for 13 minutes".

Re: Google Comes Down on the Wrong Side of the TPP

#36

Post by pzone » Mon, Jun 13, 2016, 4:42 PM UTC

mattnewton wrote: post #17

cardiac wrote: post #15

This is what irrational looks like. "just wrong" Um. Ok. Why? `limiting exploration of fair use` Unless you're one of those empirical people and like human experimentation, which is rather unethical when people's livelihoods are at stake, you can literally theorize that right now. Go ahead. Everybody's listening. Well, while you continue to think about that and have no answer, we'll continue using laws that protect c…

Irrational and anti-capitalist these are not. There is nothing free-market about a patent or copyright, they are exceptions to the free market meant to try and subsidize "innovation," and smart people are still arguing on whether or not that is working well today. There are other issues that the TPP forces the hand of the American legislative system to pass new restrictions where we had previously voted against doing…

There are very good arguments in favor of the existence of patents and copyrights. Copyrights and and patent reward creators and innovators for their work. Of course giving these legal rights too much force (eg indefinite copyright, overly broad patent licenses) is harmful since it restricts further innovation and increases the price of consuming creative goods. But the question is not whether patents and copyright are pure good or pure evil, but how we should make use of these legal tools to improve society.

http://economics.mit.edu/files/7720

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10887-015-9114-3

Re: Google Comes Down on the Wrong Side of the TPP

#37

Post by godgod » Mon, Jun 13, 2016, 5:03 PM UTC

Supporting TPP is the right side for Google. They are in bed with the Obama administration.

Re: Google Comes Down on the Wrong Side of the TPP

#38

Post by AnthonyMouse » Mon, Jun 13, 2016, 5:16 PM UTC

foota wrote: post #34

mtgx wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a good analogy, because both the TPP and TTIP show extremely small gains to the GDP - and even those gains will only come after a decade or so: http://www.wsj.com/articles/study-projects-tpp-will-provide-... https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20160127/08075533442/yet-m... So even if it Google did manage to pass some small clause in there that's of great help to them, it doesn't mean that's a good trade deal ove…

A benefit not reflected straight in the gdp are increases in welfare due to decreases in prices from competition. Also, it sounds like this will also help other countries, which is generally a good thing. That said, the IP provisions bug me.

> A benefit not reflected straight in the gdp are increases in welfare due to decreases in prices from competition.

This is the same fallacy Google has. You like one thing in the treaty so you vote in favor of some omnibus heap of garbage.

The fundamental problem with this treaty is that there are too many unrelated things in it. Even if the treaty was net positive (which it probably isn't), we should never accept something which is +1001 and -1000 when the -1000 parts are entirely unrelated and are only tacked on by lobbyists because they would never pass on their own merits.

There is no reason we can't reject this treaty and then go back and sign one that has only the good parts in it -- we're the ones asking for the bad parts. We could have the version that only has the +1001. If we dumped the bad stuff then we could even use the negotiating leverage to get more good stuff.

Re: Google Comes Down on the Wrong Side of the TPP

#39

Post by VOYD » Mon, Jun 13, 2016, 6:10 PM UTC

chipperyman573 wrote: post #3

skrowl wrote: post #2

Anyone who has even been passively following the US election cycle this year knows that Google is throwing in with Hillary Clinton. This is just another example of it and is honestly much less troubling to me than their censorship issues around the campaign.

For someone who hasn't been following it, what makes you say they are?

it's the plot from last seasons' "House of Cards".

Re: Google Comes Down on the Wrong Side of the TPP

#40

Post by naringas » Mon, Jun 13, 2016, 6:24 PM UTC

the TPP is good (great) for entities made out of humans and their tools, but it's pretty bad for entities comprised of (mostly) human cells, i.e. individual humans.