Debian 8.4 released • Hacker News Board

Re: Debian 8.4 released

#31

Post by chx » Sat, Apr 02, 2016, 9:12 PM UTC

SwellJoe wrote: post #28

chx wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This won't be the answer you are looking for but let's face some bitter truth: I have been running Linux on my laptops since 2004 and in my experience it's always a struggle (servers since 1993 are happy, it's the desktop that suffers). As of right now, this struggle no longer worths it. Just use Winux (my made up name for the Ubuntu userspace under Windows 10 plus perhaps Xming).

I've been predominantly a Linux user on desktop/laptop since 1995. It has literally never been easier; to install, to use, to find hardware that works (even weird stuff like pro audio devices and oddball controllers), and to act like it's a "normal" computer without having to worry about drivers, kernels, X, etc. I have had at least as much trouble from my Windows partition and my Android phones as I have from my Lin…

> There really is no longer a credible case to be made that Linux is hard to use on the desktop.

No, Linux desktop is as easy to use as Windows (sometimes perhaps easier), the problem is one layer lower: the drivers.

1. Bluetooth breaks about every 3-4 months. 2. Wifi. Where do I start. Say: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Wireless_network_config... "If you have problems connecting to networks in general or your link quality is very poor, try to disable 802.11n" -- are you kidding me? Then if you have anything complicated, chances are you are completely and totally screwed. Examples: a) PPPoE over Wifi is simply not supported. b) The only way I found to connect to my work VPN is via a Firefox-running-as-root (I kid you not -- and it wasn't me me who came up with this solution obviously). 3. Battery life. http://unix.stackexchange.com/a/119620/9452 4. USB 3.0. Sure, NEC and Intel hosts are supported. Throw your card away if it's not NEC. 5. Hybrid graphics.

On to the destkop:

1. Skype. Say what you want, Microsoft abandoned it and Skype is a huge part of communications these days, sorry. 2. Chrome and hardware acceleration.

Re: Debian 8.4 released

#32

Post by SwellJoe » Sat, Apr 02, 2016, 9:31 PM UTC

chx wrote: post #31

SwellJoe wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been predominantly a Linux user on desktop/laptop since 1995. It has literally never been easier; to install, to use, to find hardware that works (even weird stuff like pro audio devices and oddball controllers), and to act like it's a "normal" computer without having to worry about drivers, kernels, X, etc. I have had at least as much trouble from my Windows partition and my Android phones as I have from my Lin…

> There really is no longer a credible case to be made that Linux is hard to use on the desktop. No, Linux desktop is as easy to use as Windows (sometimes perhaps easier), the problem is one layer lower: the drivers. 1. Bluetooth breaks about every 3-4 months. 2. Wifi. Where do I start. Say: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Wireless_network_config... "If you have problems connecting to networks in general or your…

I haven't experienced any of those problems. On the WiFi front, I live a challenging WiFi life, because I travel full-time, and connect up to RV park WiFi regularly. I don't find it problematic. I don't know what chipset my laptop has, as I've never had to look into it. It's a shitty HP lappy. My desktop has had several different USB and PCI WiFi adapters without major issue. I do remember I did check google to make sure I was buying a compatible one, though, it wasn't hard to pick one that was known to be well-supported, even at Best Buy or Fry's.

Likewise, USB 3.0 works fine for me. I dunno what chipset any of my devices have, but they all work.

As for Skype, I used to use it regularly, and then switched to Hangouts. Skype worked fine on Linux up until I switched. I dunno the state of it now, but I don't need it, so it's no big deal. Both Google and Facebook have video chat and phone call features built right into their messenger apps, and they work fine on Linux; Skype is deprecated, IMHO.

Re: Debian 8.4 released

#33

Post by Yetanfou » Sat, Apr 02, 2016, 10:14 PM UTC

simonebrunozzi wrote: post #19

Let's talk about Linux on laptops: am I the only one perennially debating between Debian and Ubuntu? I love Debian, but Ubuntu seems to have better support. What do you guys think?

Debian, on server and laptop. One of the reasons for choosing Debian on the laptop is that I tend to use older hardware - currently ranging from a series of Thinkpad T42p's to a HP 2230s - which tends to balk at the sheer size of 'modern' desktop environments. I also happen to prefer something less obtrusive so I 'standardised' on a combination of Xmonad, Dzen, Trayer and Conky combined with mate- or gnome-terminal. For this, Debian is just fine. Power management sometimes needs some fiddling with before it behaves, but the same would go for Ubuntu. Last but not least, I prefer the stability of Debian - even when using Sid - over the more brittle Ubuntu. Once I've installed a machine I like to be able to keep it up to date using a simple apt (dist-)upgrade, something which tends to 'just work' with Debian but 'usually break' with Ubuntu and its derivatives (eg. Mint).

I now have one system left running LMDE (the Debian version of Mint), one on Mint, one Ubuntu (Maverick, from 2010... my wife and kids love it so I keep it as it is) and the rest is Debian. All servers are on Debian, usually a combination of Stable with some added Testing/Unstable packages.

Re: Debian 8.4 released

#34

Post by Yetanfou » Sat, Apr 02, 2016, 10:21 PM UTC

artlogic wrote: post #26

jensen123 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not the only one. Recently, I decided to try Fedora, though. It seems to work very well. However, I'm somewhat uncomfortable with it. I guess Red Hat makes a living selling Linux support, which means it's probably in their interest to make things unnecessarily complex. I'm not an expert but I looked a bit at SELinux (which comes with Fedora) and it seems rather complex. Then there's Systemd etc.

You aren't going to get away from systemd with a Debian or Ubuntu system. Both Debian 8 and Ubuntu 15.04 (and beyond) use systemd. There are very few mainstream Linux distributions that haven't adopted it, Slackware being the notable exception.

You can use sysv-init on Debian if you prefer (as I do). There will still be some systemd-related stuff around, but it won't be running at pid==1.

Re: Debian 8.4 released

#35

Post by jlgaddis » Sat, Apr 02, 2016, 10:37 PM UTC

julie1 wrote: post #30

moon_of_moon wrote: post #13

First release since Ians passing? http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/12/30/ian_murdock_debian_f... BTW does anyone have any color on what the heck happened that night?

I tried to. Apparently he claimed to have been harassed by the police, but he also was said to be incoherent and violent in his behaviours. Bruce Perens unnicely -at my opinion that is not the most reliable in the world- disclosed his mental illness . 1 day after on his blog and /. The family also asked for discretion. A wish that has been followed by the majority of the community. Except people like me. Because, wel…

I guess you finally figured out you were hellbanned and created a new account?

Re: Debian 8.4 released

#36

Post by lamby » Sun, Apr 03, 2016, 8:10 AM UTC

justinmayer wrote: post #15

While we're on the topic of Debian, am I the only one who finds it odd that Debian Jessie is apparently never going to support HTTP/2? It seems an unfortunate decision was made at some point to skip OpenSSL 1.0.2: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=767661 Nowhere have I been able to find any information regarding plans to backport OpenSSL 1.0.2+ to Jessie. With Google turning off SPDY in Chrome next mo…

> Debian Jessie is apparently never going to support HTTP/2?

I suppose it depends on what you mean. The, say, nginx package in jessie itself won't get new features (by design) but the backports repositories -- which are now official -- have an nginx that supports HTTP/2. Am happily serving HTTP/2 from jessie right now :)

Re: Debian 8.4 released

#37

Post by groovy2shoes » Sun, Apr 03, 2016, 9:48 AM UTC

Yetanfou wrote: post #34

artlogic wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You aren't going to get away from systemd with a Debian or Ubuntu system. Both Debian 8 and Ubuntu 15.04 (and beyond) use systemd. There are very few mainstream Linux distributions that haven't adopted it, Slackware being the notable exception.

You can use sysv-init on Debian if you prefer (as I do). There will still be some systemd-related stuff around, but it won't be running at pid==1.

Are there any articles or guides or even just instructions for doing that? I've always loved Debian, but I can't stand systemd and its ilk...

Re: Debian 8.4 released

#38

Post by Ambroos » Sun, Apr 03, 2016, 3:26 PM UTC

lamby wrote: post #36

justinmayer wrote: post #15

While we're on the topic of Debian, am I the only one who finds it odd that Debian Jessie is apparently never going to support HTTP/2? It seems an unfortunate decision was made at some point to skip OpenSSL 1.0.2: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=767661 Nowhere have I been able to find any information regarding plans to backport OpenSSL 1.0.2+ to Jessie. With Google turning off SPDY in Chrome next mo…

> Debian Jessie is apparently never going to support HTTP/2? I suppose it depends on what you mean. The, say, nginx package in jessie itself won't get new features (by design) but the backports repositories -- which are now official -- have an nginx that supports HTTP/2. Am happily serving HTTP/2 from jessie right now :)

Unfortunately, since you don't have OpenSSL 1.0.2, you are only negotiating HTTP/2 over NPN, which Chrome will drop together with SPDY.

To still get Chrome to negotiate HTTP/2 after the SPDY+NPN drop, you will need ALPN. Which is only supported in OpenSSL 1.0.2+.

Re: Debian 8.4 released

#39

Post by julie1 » Sun, Apr 03, 2016, 6:18 PM UTC

jlgaddis wrote: post #35

julie1 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tried to. Apparently he claimed to have been harassed by the police, but he also was said to be incoherent and violent in his behaviours. Bruce Perens unnicely -at my opinion that is not the most reliable in the world- disclosed his mental illness . 1 day after on his blog and /. The family also asked for discretion. A wish that has been followed by the majority of the community. Except people like me. Because, wel…

I guess you finally figured out you were hellbanned and created a new account?

Ah? I did not even knew about it. What is hellban? Is it what we called trollcaved in the old days?

I was finding something was weired and coincidently used an old brower with one of my old credential in it. Just coincidence. I did not even cared.