Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

VW Toys with Giving Up the U.S. Mass Market, and Dealers Fume

bloomberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 47 posts

Re: VW Toys with Giving Up the U.S. Mass Market, and Dealers Fume

#31

Post by joezydeco »

georgeecollins wrote: post #5
jbob2000 wrote: post #2

In the android phone market, we know that mid-tier phones do very poorly; People can afford a high end one, or they can't afford anything, so they have to get the cheapest one available. I kind of feel like automobiles are going the same way. Why pay for a mid market car from VW when you can spend another $5,000 and sit in a BMW or Mercedes? Or why spend $30,000 when you can spend $20,000 and get essentially the same…

The automobile market is not that simple. It's possible for a car to be moderately priced, sell in huge numbers, and make a profit. In the mid '90s Chrysler sold 100k+ minivans a year and made an average profit of $5k. I'm sure today someone is doing almost that well with cute SUVs. VW has the wrong product mix for North America: no trucks, no popular SUVs. They got burned with US regulation because they cheated. It'…

It's easy to imagine that they would do better as a premium brand, but there is no evidence that they have the brand or the competency.

Yet, VW turned Audi around and made it into a luxury brand in the US.

The Planet Money podcast covers a little more into how they did it.

http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2012/06/15/155039824/can-l...

Re: VW Toys with Giving Up the U.S. Mass Market, and Dealers Fume

#32

Post by monksy »

grillvogel wrote: post #6
jbob2000 wrote: post #2

In the android phone market, we know that mid-tier phones do very poorly; People can afford a high end one, or they can't afford anything, so they have to get the cheapest one available. I kind of feel like automobiles are going the same way. Why pay for a mid market car from VW when you can spend another $5,000 and sit in a BMW or Mercedes? Or why spend $30,000 when you can spend $20,000 and get essentially the same…

your price differentials are a little off. you can't spend $5000 more than VW prices to get an equivalent Mercedes/BMW/Audi, its more like 10-15k more. VW's whole thing used to be that they were about 5k more than the mass market cars, but were almost as good as a luxury car with a nice feel and unique features. I'd be fine with them returning to this niche model, the american Jettas and Passats are lame.

That is one of the reasons I bought a VW Jetta, I wanted an Audi, but I won't pay the Audi price for it.

Re: VW Toys with Giving Up the U.S. Mass Market, and Dealers Fume

#33

Post by monksy »

skippytheroo wrote: post #15
Swizec wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jetta is small? Looks like a big fancy car to me. This is a small VW: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Polo (and yes, nobody buys non-TDI volkswagens these days, at least not in Europe)

The Jetta is pretty big. For some reason Americans seem to classify it as a small sedan in most articles.

I would agree with that. It's not easy in a city like Chicago to get it in and out of places. (When parallel parking)

Re: VW Toys with Giving Up the U.S. Mass Market, and Dealers Fume

#34

Post by dragontamer »

skippytheroo wrote: post #23
dragontamer wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything is bigger in Texas. I mean, America. Jetta is a compact car around here. Its just how it is. Personally speaking, I like the size of American compact cars (ie: what Europeans call mid-size). But everyone around me has a larger car than I do.

Thats quite a fascinating difference in culture/preference. Most people I know think Jettas are "too big" unless you have a family of 5 and need the extra space. Don't people find cars even bigger than that awkward to park in crowded parking lots?

Again, I like compact cars (erm... "normal cars" for you Europeans) because they've got much better handling, lower MPG, cheaper, etc. etc.

But take my Mom: she needs a larger car because she's tired of other drivers "looking down" on her (physically. Like, if you drive a Jetta around in the USA, well over 60% of cars are taller / bigger than yours and look down on you). She was also worried about getting in a collision: the Jetta's safety record may be good for a compact... but there's only so much that design can do when other cars are typically 1000+ lbs heavier than a Jetta.

Jeep Grand Cherokee is 4600 lbs. Toyota Rav4 is 3600 lbs. My boss drives a GMC Suburban at 5,586 lbs. Ford F150 (Pickup truck, which is a surprisingly common commuter vehicle) is 4000lbs curb weight.

The Jetta's 2900lbs curb weight will be a severe disadvantage against the "typical" car around here. There's a legitimate safety reason to go for a bigger car in America. Even if you're into "smaller cars", you typically choose like a Ford Fusion (3400lbs) which has the weight to keep up with everyone else on the road in the case of a collision.

I bet our parking lots and roadways are larger than yours to compensate for the difference in culture. But cars really are just bigger in America.

Re: VW Toys with Giving Up the U.S. Mass Market, and Dealers Fume

#35

Post by dragontamer »

douche wrote: post #25
skippytheroo wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thats quite a fascinating difference in culture/preference. Most people I know think Jettas are "too big" unless you have a family of 5 and need the extra space. Don't people find cars even bigger than that awkward to park in crowded parking lots?

I can almost fit a Jetta in the bed of my regular-sized pickup truck... It's definitely a cultural difference - I always feel like I'm in a death trap, skimming along on the ground with no visibility, getting into a sedan or compact car. I also grew up in an area with a high rate of moose collisions, and you do not want to see what happens when you hit one of those in a vehicle that's lower than their center of mass.

Dunno why you're getting downvoted for sharing American culture. Your opinion seems to be the mainstream as far as I can tell "in the real world".

I'll +1 you to counteract the downvotes.

To serve as some counter-balance to your post, the bigger SUVs (which are more typical in America) feel unbalanced with abnormally high center-of-balance. When taking a corner at any decent speed, I feel like the car is ready to flip over. Also, big cars guzzle more gas and are inefficient.

Also, I live in an area without Moose. Those things are scary, and I'd definitely get a bigger car if I lived around them.

Re: VW Toys with Giving Up the U.S. Mass Market, and Dealers Fume

#36

Post by skippytheroo »

dragontamer wrote: post #34
skippytheroo wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thats quite a fascinating difference in culture/preference. Most people I know think Jettas are "too big" unless you have a family of 5 and need the extra space. Don't people find cars even bigger than that awkward to park in crowded parking lots?

Again, I like compact cars (erm... "normal cars" for you Europeans) because they've got much better handling, lower MPG, cheaper, etc. etc. But take my Mom: she needs a larger car because she's tired of other drivers "looking down" on her (physically. Like, if you drive a Jetta around in the USA, well over 60% of cars are taller / bigger than yours and look down on you). She was also worried about getting in a collis…

Thanks for the insight. I never really thought of that aspect. Over here I'm far more likely to collide with a corolla or vw polo than a giant Jeep etc.

Re: VW Toys with Giving Up the U.S. Mass Market, and Dealers Fume

#37

Post by dragontamer »

skippytheroo wrote: post #29
douche wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can almost fit a Jetta in the bed of my regular-sized pickup truck... It's definitely a cultural difference - I always feel like I'm in a death trap, skimming along on the ground with no visibility, getting into a sedan or compact car. I also grew up in an area with a high rate of moose collisions, and you do not want to see what happens when you hit one of those in a vehicle that's lower than their center of mass.

A jetta would barely fit into my garage. If a "regular" pickup can swallow a jetta does that mean I can expect a "large" pickup to be bigger than my entire 5 bedroom house?

I dunno, what do you think?

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7182/6964996815_1f626fdbe5_b.j...

That's a large pickup: F-450

Here's another shot of the F-450:

http://www.tfltruck.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/car_trans...

I see a good number of F350 or larger trucks used to tow a bunch of other cars around.

Re: VW Toys with Giving Up the U.S. Mass Market, and Dealers Fume

#38

Post by arprocter »

bubblesorting wrote: post #20
pcurve wrote: post #12

This may not be a bad idea, and it was a long time in making, even without the emission scandal. Ever since its decision to go mass market, quality of materials took a steep dive. They also looked very dull because engineering and production cost was putting constraints on design detailing. For the past 5 years, VW has been making cars that are duller than Toyota Camry of late 90s. They were given benefit of the doub…

I agree with Golf being the exception. I love my (mk7) GTI, and still smile when driving it--a year after buying. Tried a (United States) Passat for about a week, and it felt like a waterbed on wheels :( not sure if it was "because rental" or if that's how they are; any owners care to comment??

That's a bit of an apples to oranges comparison.

The Passat wasn't meant to be sporty (except for the R36)

Re: VW Toys with Giving Up the U.S. Mass Market, and Dealers Fume

#39

Post by CalRobert »

Swizec wrote: post #11
CalRobert wrote: post #10

Being the designated mechanic for my wife's 2005 Jetta convinced me that the only reason I'd ever consider a VW was the TDI. How the hell do teeth start falling off your timing belt at 60,000 miles and 4 years? How can changing a timing belt require so many special tools? How can a car be small AND slow AND handle like crap AND get terrible fuel economy? 25mpg is pathetic. Still though, a clean diesel getting 50mpg s…

Jetta is small? Looks like a big fancy car to me. This is a small VW: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Polo (and yes, nobody buys non-TDI volkswagens these days, at least not in Europe)

It was small by US standards. You're correct, though, it would be large in Europe.

My ideal car most of the time is a Smart Fortwo electric, but she already owned the Jetta so it's what we used.

Re: VW Toys with Giving Up the U.S. Mass Market, and Dealers Fume

#40

Post by CalRobert »

wwkeyboard wrote: post #30
CalRobert wrote: post #10

Being the designated mechanic for my wife's 2005 Jetta convinced me that the only reason I'd ever consider a VW was the TDI. How the hell do teeth start falling off your timing belt at 60,000 miles and 4 years? How can changing a timing belt require so many special tools? How can a car be small AND slow AND handle like crap AND get terrible fuel economy? 25mpg is pathetic. Still though, a clean diesel getting 50mpg s…

I thought VW belts were pretty easy to change: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQhfcdQf1QA The similarity between vehicles is why I've stuck with Subarus, everything under a Forester looks pretty much like everything underneath an Impreza.

Hah,

Well on the Jetta you have to remove the engine mount that runs through the middle of the timing belt, and it's an interference engine so the technique in that video would end poorly.

Post reply on HN