VW Toys with Giving Up the U.S. Mass Market, and Dealers Fume • Hacker News Board

Re: VW Toys with Giving Up the U.S. Mass Market, and Dealers Fume

#11

Post by Swizec » Fri, Mar 11, 2016, 8:41 PM UTC

CalRobert wrote: post #10

Being the designated mechanic for my wife's 2005 Jetta convinced me that the only reason I'd ever consider a VW was the TDI. How the hell do teeth start falling off your timing belt at 60,000 miles and 4 years? How can changing a timing belt require so many special tools? How can a car be small AND slow AND handle like crap AND get terrible fuel economy? 25mpg is pathetic. Still though, a clean diesel getting 50mpg s…

Jetta is small? Looks like a big fancy car to me.

This is a small VW: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Polo

(and yes, nobody buys non-TDI volkswagens these days, at least not in Europe)

Re: VW Toys with Giving Up the U.S. Mass Market, and Dealers Fume

#12

Post by pcurve » Fri, Mar 11, 2016, 8:42 PM UTC

This may not be a bad idea, and it was a long time in making, even without the emission scandal.

Ever since its decision to go mass market, quality of materials took a steep dive. They also looked very dull because engineering and production cost was putting constraints on design detailing. For the past 5 years, VW has been making cars that are duller than Toyota Camry of late 90s. They were given benefit of the doubt by automotive press because journalists love German cars. But with its competitors seriously ramping up their product portfolio, riding the coattail of its former glory is coming to an end.

Their current lineup with exception of Golf is entirely uncompetitive, particularly Passat and Jetta. There are far more compelling offerings out there than these dull box on wheel that are product of severe cost engineering.

Re: VW Toys with Giving Up the U.S. Mass Market, and Dealers Fume

#13

Post by TheCapn » Fri, Mar 11, 2016, 8:44 PM UTC

dominotw wrote: post #8

ams6110 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't looked at a VW in a long time. I last bought an A2 generation Jetta new in 1991. At that time, I think they were about $11 or $12K, and there was a definite "German" feel to the vehicle compared to similarly priced Asian or American cars. Better handling, better gear changes, a more tight and solid feel, and quieter. A Corolla at the time felt like a beer can on wheels, a Ford or Chevy in that price range f…

> there was a definite "German" feel to the vehicle Could it be placebo effect/confirmation bias? I am not a car enthusiast but I recently bought a new one and test drove both german and asian models and I honestly couldn't tell them apart.

Anecdotal but, I think for someone who truly enjoys driving and looks for the little things there's enough to notice.

I drove a '99 VW until it got wrecked. I picked up a '99 Acura afterwards and immediately could feel the difference in clutch & gearbox. I now drive an '03 VW, my girlfriend an '04 Honda and I can still feel the same differences. She's mentioned it too and says she prefers the "solid" feel of my car compared to hers. I've driven VWs of every generation from MK3 to current (MK7), I've driven Chevy/Honda/Toyota/Hyundai manual transmission cars and nothing feels as tight as the VWs I've driven.

So I'm a pretty big fanboy, but I definitely feel and believe there's a difference that can be felt.

Re: VW Toys with Giving Up the U.S. Mass Market, and Dealers Fume

#14

Post by Domenic_S » Fri, Mar 11, 2016, 8:47 PM UTC

georgeecollins wrote: post #5

jbob2000 wrote: post #2

In the android phone market, we know that mid-tier phones do very poorly; People can afford a high end one, or they can't afford anything, so they have to get the cheapest one available. I kind of feel like automobiles are going the same way. Why pay for a mid market car from VW when you can spend another $5,000 and sit in a BMW or Mercedes? Or why spend $30,000 when you can spend $20,000 and get essentially the same…

The automobile market is not that simple. It's possible for a car to be moderately priced, sell in huge numbers, and make a profit. In the mid '90s Chrysler sold 100k+ minivans a year and made an average profit of $5k. I'm sure today someone is doing almost that well with cute SUVs. VW has the wrong product mix for North America: no trucks, no popular SUVs. They got burned with US regulation because they cheated. It'…

It's less simple than you think. Chrysler essentially invented the modern minivan and had a massive jump on sales in the 90s. Great competition like the Sienna didn't happen until the late 90s. When you have a popular new category and no competition, I'd expect to kill it like Chrysler did.

BMW doesn't have any trucks, and Honda didn't for a long time either. It's easy money but it's not the only way to make an auto brand.

(Fun side note: VW's minivan was a rebadged Chrysler.)

Re: VW Toys with Giving Up the U.S. Mass Market, and Dealers Fume

#15

Post by skippytheroo » Fri, Mar 11, 2016, 8:48 PM UTC

Swizec wrote: post #11

CalRobert wrote: post #10

Being the designated mechanic for my wife's 2005 Jetta convinced me that the only reason I'd ever consider a VW was the TDI. How the hell do teeth start falling off your timing belt at 60,000 miles and 4 years? How can changing a timing belt require so many special tools? How can a car be small AND slow AND handle like crap AND get terrible fuel economy? 25mpg is pathetic. Still though, a clean diesel getting 50mpg s…

Jetta is small? Looks like a big fancy car to me. This is a small VW: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Polo (and yes, nobody buys non-TDI volkswagens these days, at least not in Europe)

The Jetta is pretty big. For some reason Americans seem to classify it as a small sedan in most articles.

Re: VW Toys with Giving Up the U.S. Mass Market, and Dealers Fume

#16

Post by cvwright » Fri, Mar 11, 2016, 8:50 PM UTC

grillvogel wrote: post #6

jbob2000 wrote: post #2

In the android phone market, we know that mid-tier phones do very poorly; People can afford a high end one, or they can't afford anything, so they have to get the cheapest one available. I kind of feel like automobiles are going the same way. Why pay for a mid market car from VW when you can spend another $5,000 and sit in a BMW or Mercedes? Or why spend $30,000 when you can spend $20,000 and get essentially the same…

your price differentials are a little off. you can't spend $5000 more than VW prices to get an equivalent Mercedes/BMW/Audi, its more like 10-15k more. VW's whole thing used to be that they were about 5k more than the mass market cars, but were almost as good as a luxury car with a nice feel and unique features. I'd be fine with them returning to this niche model, the american Jettas and Passats are lame.

The other problem with this strategy is that, at least according to Consumer Reports, the reliability of a new VW is way below that of a similar Toyota or Honda. Why pay more for a car that won't last as long?

Re: VW Toys with Giving Up the U.S. Mass Market, and Dealers Fume

#17

Post by dragontamer » Fri, Mar 11, 2016, 8:51 PM UTC

skippytheroo wrote: post #15

Swizec wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jetta is small? Looks like a big fancy car to me. This is a small VW: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Polo (and yes, nobody buys non-TDI volkswagens these days, at least not in Europe)

The Jetta is pretty big. For some reason Americans seem to classify it as a small sedan in most articles.

Everything is bigger in Texas. I mean, America.

Jetta is a compact car around here. Its just how it is. Personally speaking, I like the size of American compact cars (ie: what Europeans call mid-size). But everyone around me has a larger car than I do.

Re: VW Toys with Giving Up the U.S. Mass Market, and Dealers Fume

#18

Post by skippytheroo » Fri, Mar 11, 2016, 8:53 PM UTC

pcurve wrote: post #12

This may not be a bad idea, and it was a long time in making, even without the emission scandal. Ever since its decision to go mass market, quality of materials took a steep dive. They also looked very dull because engineering and production cost was putting constraints on design detailing. For the past 5 years, VW has been making cars that are duller than Toyota Camry of late 90s. They were given benefit of the doub…

The American variant of the Jetta was recently a stripped down cheapened version compared to the jettas sold elsewhere.They even removed the multilink rear suspension for the US model.

Re: VW Toys with Giving Up the U.S. Mass Market, and Dealers Fume

#19

Post by redthrowaway » Fri, Mar 11, 2016, 8:54 PM UTC

skippytheroo wrote: post #15

Swizec wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jetta is small? Looks like a big fancy car to me. This is a small VW: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Polo (and yes, nobody buys non-TDI volkswagens these days, at least not in Europe)

The Jetta is pretty big. For some reason Americans seem to classify it as a small sedan in most articles.

Jetta, Corolla, 3-series, C-class, etc are all compact sedans in the US. The step up (5-series, E-class) is mid-size, and the step after (7-series, S-class) is full-size.

Things like the Yaris, Polo, Fit, 1-series, etc are all subcompacts.

North American cities are largely planned around cars as opposed to having bricks thrown down wherever horses used to walk, gas isn't nearly as heavily taxed, and historically steel was never anywhere near as expensive as it was in post-war Europe. So there's no need for small cars like there is in Europe, and people like the comfort and practicality of larger vehicles.

Re: VW Toys with Giving Up the U.S. Mass Market, and Dealers Fume

#20

Post by bubblesorting » Fri, Mar 11, 2016, 9:03 PM UTC

pcurve wrote: post #12

This may not be a bad idea, and it was a long time in making, even without the emission scandal. Ever since its decision to go mass market, quality of materials took a steep dive. They also looked very dull because engineering and production cost was putting constraints on design detailing. For the past 5 years, VW has been making cars that are duller than Toyota Camry of late 90s. They were given benefit of the doub…

I agree with Golf being the exception. I love my (mk7) GTI, and still smile when driving it--a year after buying.

Tried a (United States) Passat for about a week, and it felt like a waterbed on wheels :( not sure if it was "because rental" or if that's how they are; any owners care to comment??