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Brazil arrests Facebook executive in row over police access to data

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Re: Brazil arrests Facebook executive in row over police access to data

#31

Post by 13thLetter »

celticninja wrote: post #25
csandreasen wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably about as much as you see from him on the subject of Russia and China. The Intercept is about as unbiased as Fox News - lots of criticism directed towards the US and its allies, silence on every other country.

Lets be fair here: 1: Greenwald is an American so the actions of the US government are relevant to him and his readers. 2: Greenwald is a lawyer, trained in US law, therefore the actions of the US Government vis-a-vis US Law is a suitable topic for him to cover. 3. China and Russia have been oppressing their people and their peoples rights for a long time. Neither have a constitution that is supposed to enshrine the…

> China and Russia have been oppressing their people and their peoples rights for a long time. Neither have a constitution that is supposed to enshrine the rights of the citizens. SO there isnt much of a story there

Counterpoint: If something goes without saying for long enough, people stop knowing it, because they never hear it.

The "drunk looking for his keys under the streetlamp" model of news reporting is indefensible. Let it go long enough and you end up with a large population of belligerently uninformed people, like we have now, who think the United States is the most violent, oppressive, and brutal government in the world, and that Americans have no human rights. This has real world consequences of an increase in relative political power and legitimacy for genuinely oppressive states.

Re: Brazil arrests Facebook executive in row over police access to data

#32

Post by x5n1 »

13thLetter wrote: post #30
x5n1 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All governments should extend the courtesy that US extends to their citizens to Americans entering their country. Perhaps that will encourage Americans to encourage their government to treat non-Americans better.

It's kind of pathological to take a story about Brazil doing something wrong and twist it into yet another indictment of the United States. There are other countries in the world, you know.

As someone who has suffered more than once at the border, having never done anything wrong. I think we need to fix the problem with the US government's treatment of non-US citizens at its borders. And not only that, it exports its shit customer service at the border to other country's in the name of security.

Re: Brazil arrests Facebook executive in row over police access to data

#33

Post by 13thLetter »

x5n1 wrote: post #32
13thLetter wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's kind of pathological to take a story about Brazil doing something wrong and twist it into yet another indictment of the United States. There are other countries in the world, you know.

As someone who has suffered more than once at the border, having never done anything wrong. I think we need to fix the problem with the US government's treatment of non-US citizens at its borders. And not only that, it exports its shit customer service at the border to other country's in the name of security.

I agree with you that American border control is horrible and abusive. That doesn't mean we ("we" = worldwide press) shouldn't call out other countries for having horrible and abusive policies in this area as well, though. Not everything bad that happens is the fault of the United States.

Re: Brazil arrests Facebook executive in row over police access to data

#34

Post by thefastlane »

csandreasen wrote: post #10
nickpsecurity wrote: post #7

Greenwald at The Intercept writes a lot about American spying and overreach in data access. I'll be interested to see what he writes about Brazil's activities such as this.

Probably about as much as you see from him on the subject of Russia and China. The Intercept is about as unbiased as Fox News - lots of criticism directed towards the US and its allies, silence on every other country.

ah, the ol' "biased as fox news!" rhetorical device.

Re: Brazil arrests Facebook executive in row over police access to data

#35

Post by celticninja »

13thLetter wrote: post #31
celticninja wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lets be fair here: 1: Greenwald is an American so the actions of the US government are relevant to him and his readers. 2: Greenwald is a lawyer, trained in US law, therefore the actions of the US Government vis-a-vis US Law is a suitable topic for him to cover. 3. China and Russia have been oppressing their people and their peoples rights for a long time. Neither have a constitution that is supposed to enshrine the…

> China and Russia have been oppressing their people and their peoples rights for a long time. Neither have a constitution that is supposed to enshrine the rights of the citizens. SO there isnt much of a story there Counterpoint: If something goes without saying for long enough, people stop knowing it, because they never hear it. The "drunk looking for his keys under the streetlamp" model of news reporting is indefen…

Im not saying that it's right but it is not Greenwald's fault that this is happening an blaming him for it is essentially trying to discredit what he has brought to light because of what he has not covered. If that isnt a trick straight out of the CIA/NSA handbook then I dont know what is.

Re: Brazil arrests Facebook executive in row over police access to data

#36

Post by Artur_Gaspar »

danielmantovani wrote: post #22

Just to clarify stupid arguments. The federal police was asking information like ip address from organised crime pages, they use Facebook as other social network pages(In this case actually we are talking about Whatsapp). Don't have ANYTHING TO DO WITH SPY CITIZENS. Like PCC( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primeiro_Comando_da_Capital ) has an official facebook page. There is many people in Brazil who stole cellphones,…

As someone commented, it could be the case that Facebook/WhatsApp does not even have the data any more. Also, WhatsApp operates as a separate business from Facebook. In my opinion this looks a lot more like a display of power by the government, than an actual effort in the investigation.

I don't see either how Facebook would be "protecting themselves". They have little to gain and much to lose by not cooperating with the government. It's not about publicity because it wouldn't have made the news at all if they complied.

Now, even mentioning the following may be going into conspiracy theory territory, but telephone companies were trying to get WhatsApp banned not long ago. I wouldn't be surprised if this event would further their goals.

Re: Brazil arrests Facebook executive in row over police access to data

#37

Post by edcastro »

envy2 wrote: post #23
edcastro wrote: post #15

Put simply, they are in contempt of the court disregarding the subpoena. This, under Brazilian law, warrants the arrest. They could fight the subpoena but decided to do nothing, so, I kinda agree with the court on this one.

It's not that simple: it seems that the issue isn't that WhatsApp/Facebook have wilfully disregarded the subpoena, but rather that Brazil isn't happy with their assertions that the information requested doesn't exist. WhatsApp has previously stated publicly that they don't retain any messages once they're delivered; if this is true, it's not strictly that they aren't willing to comply (though this may also be true),…

I agree, and if they CAN'T comply, they should address it on the court, not on a public statement that has no valid legal value.

That's what it comes to. The court requested three times, increasing the fines each of the tries and it was received with [legal] silence from Facebook. That's why they went ahead and issued the arrest warrant.

Re: Brazil arrests Facebook executive in row over police access to data

#38

Post by nibs »

dmoy wrote: post #5

Judges in Brazil certainly have a way with foreign companies & countries. For example with immigration issues (fingerprinting[1], random deportations) they will go tit for tat. [1] http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/americas/12/30/brazil.usa.immi...

(Non-serious): I think it would be funny to shut down the Facebook account of all senior Brazillian officials. 2006-Zuck would definitely do it but 2016-Zuck probably had dinner with them and promised to create lots of local jobs.

Re: Brazil arrests Facebook executive in row over police access to data

#39

Post by pmarreck »

danielmantovani wrote: post #22

Just to clarify stupid arguments. The federal police was asking information like ip address from organised crime pages, they use Facebook as other social network pages(In this case actually we are talking about Whatsapp). Don't have ANYTHING TO DO WITH SPY CITIZENS. Like PCC( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primeiro_Comando_da_Capital ) has an official facebook page. There is many people in Brazil who stole cellphones,…

Try and struggle through this please

http://martinfowler.com/articles/bothersome-privacy.html

Or read the google-translated version into Portuguese

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=pt&js=y&pr...

It explains very well why this is no trivial issue to Americans nor to tech people.

Also, your drugs should be legalized or decriminalized, anyway. It would put all the bad guys out of business and bring the entire drug market back within regulation. Portugal did it and it's considered a success, why can't Brazil?

Re: Brazil arrests Facebook executive in row over police access to data

#40

Post by schoen »

pmarreck wrote: post #39
danielmantovani wrote: post #22

Just to clarify stupid arguments. The federal police was asking information like ip address from organised crime pages, they use Facebook as other social network pages(In this case actually we are talking about Whatsapp). Don't have ANYTHING TO DO WITH SPY CITIZENS. Like PCC( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primeiro_Comando_da_Capital ) has an official facebook page. There is many people in Brazil who stole cellphones,…

Try and struggle through this please http://martinfowler.com/articles/bothersome-privacy.html Or read the google-translated version into Portuguese https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=pt&js=y&pr... It explains very well why this is no trivial issue to Americans nor to tech people. Also, your drugs should be legalized or decriminalized, anyway. It would put all the bad guys out of business and bring the…

That article includes a link to an official Portuguese translation, which is still available at

http://lixo.org/blog/2013/08/05/privacidade-protege-pessoas-...

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