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This is the most depressing chart in the world

businessinsider.com

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Re: This is the most depressing chart in the world

#31

Post by anexprogrammer »

dozzie wrote: post #19
coldtea wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, damn that scientific consensus.

This scientific consensus already made several heavily wrong estimates. And mind you, we don't have a working, proven model of climate change. We only have some speculations based on some proxy variables, and those speculations tend to ignore most basic physics or statistics (e.g. discussing changes of temperature that are way below observational errors currently possible, or focus on marginal CO2 concentration, whil…

I would far rather we incorrectly rushed to decarbonise and replace with renewables than assume the science is wrong and have an oh fuck we're doomed moment in 30 or 40 years. I won't care, I'll probably be dead by then. My children would.

Decarbonising would remove many other pollutants and particulates from the atmosphere, and should lead to health benefits like reduced asthma in cities.

Re: This is the most depressing chart in the world

#32

Post by YeGoblynQueenne »

baldfat wrote: post #3

I have very little understanding about economics but I always am scared of large GDP growth because it seems like that is when we go into recession due to bubbles. 1980s led to the recession of the early 1990s. The mid 1990s growth became the 2007-2009 "Great Recession." So this shows growth and it is steady so I don't find this depressing. edited one word

> edited one word

Dammit. Now I want to know what word that was and how many instances of it did you change. :(

Re: This is the most depressing chart in the world

#33

Post by smackay »

Seems to me from my naive viewpoint that efficiency also needs to be taken into account. If my disposable incomes is fixed but each year we get better at making all the things I need so they cost less then, yes, growth in GDP will be stagnant or even declining but every year I will be better off (more stuff) than the year before.

Re: This is the most depressing chart in the world

#34

Post by pjc50 »

coldtea wrote: post #12

Why should we expect or even want constant growth? Is current level of growth even sustainable? (regarding environment, lifestyle issues --stress, depression, etc.--, quality of production, time for people to adapt to new paradigms, etc)? How about less "growth" and better distribution, more quality, less rat racing?

That would be great, but zero growth also implies zero return on investment, and lots of current capitalist economic structures don't really work in that environment.

(Yes, growth is ultimately unsustainable, but I think there's a long way to go in bringing up e.g. large areas of Africa to Chinese growth levels)

Re: This is the most depressing chart in the world

#35

Post by dschiptsov »

mikebelanger wrote: post #30
dschiptsov wrote: post #22

Which proves that GDP forecasts especially on a global scale is bullshit. Continuous growth is another idiotic concept with contradicts with fluctuating, co-evolutionary nature of vastly complex competitive ecosystems (multi-level host-parasite co-evolution). The difficulty is the same as with forecasting weather in areas with unique microclimates - each tiny valley in Himalaya has its own. One has to monitor its uni…

GDP isn't bullshit, but it doesn't necessarily matter as much as other macroeconomic measures. For instance, some other commenters here have mentioned demographics, our projected carbon footprint, or levels of extreme poverty as being a more important focus.

Forecasting is.

Re: This is the most depressing chart in the world

#36

Post by SonicSoul »

dmm wrote: post #27
coldtea wrote: post #12

Why should we expect or even want constant growth? Is current level of growth even sustainable? (regarding environment, lifestyle issues --stress, depression, etc.--, quality of production, time for people to adapt to new paradigms, etc)? How about less "growth" and better distribution, more quality, less rat racing?

In the absence of growth the only way for an individual to get more resources is to take it from someone else. Life becomes a zero-sum game. This is a qualitative change. The game stops being who can make the most pie to who can take the most.

are you sure those are the only 2 options? that's like saying you can't improve your apartment w/out influx of new furniture.

Re: This is the most depressing chart in the world

#37

Post by cel1ne »

dozzie wrote: post #19
coldtea wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, damn that scientific consensus.

This scientific consensus already made several heavily wrong estimates. And mind you, we don't have a working, proven model of climate change. We only have some speculations based on some proxy variables, and those speculations tend to ignore most basic physics or statistics (e.g. discussing changes of temperature that are way below observational errors currently possible, or focus on marginal CO2 concentration, whil…

So there are thousands of climate scientists which came, over and over again, to the same conclusion: that the extent of current heating is caused by co2 release, which is caused by coal-burning by mankind.

Those have all made several mistakes and continue to make them and the 15 scientists or so who are of a different opinion are probably right?

Is that what you are saying?

Re: This is the most depressing chart in the world

#38

Post by user_0001 »

coldtea wrote: post #12

Why should we expect or even want constant growth? Is current level of growth even sustainable? (regarding environment, lifestyle issues --stress, depression, etc.--, quality of production, time for people to adapt to new paradigms, etc)? How about less "growth" and better distribution, more quality, less rat racing?

infinite growth with finite resources is obviously a dumb plan. I think the problem with the graph is not that growth will slow down, but catastrophically crash with total devastation upon our species.

When with a bit of planning and foresight it could all be avoided.

Is a shame

Re: This is the most depressing chart in the world

#40

Post by TelmoMenezes »

dmm wrote: post #27
coldtea wrote: post #12

Why should we expect or even want constant growth? Is current level of growth even sustainable? (regarding environment, lifestyle issues --stress, depression, etc.--, quality of production, time for people to adapt to new paradigms, etc)? How about less "growth" and better distribution, more quality, less rat racing?

In the absence of growth the only way for an individual to get more resources is to take it from someone else. Life becomes a zero-sum game. This is a qualitative change. The game stops being who can make the most pie to who can take the most.

Life is already a negative-sum game for the majority of people. The common citizen has to work more and more hours and still gets diminishing returns, while a very small percentage of the population accumulates an increasing chunk of the resources.

Zero-sum game would feel like a huge improvement for most.

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