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This is the most depressing chart in the world

businessinsider.com

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Re: This is the most depressing chart in the world

#21

Post by jjoonathan »

coldtea wrote: post #12

Why should we expect or even want constant growth? Is current level of growth even sustainable? (regarding environment, lifestyle issues --stress, depression, etc.--, quality of production, time for people to adapt to new paradigms, etc)? How about less "growth" and better distribution, more quality, less rat racing?

A rising tide lifts all boats and it's easy to hand-wave away the fact that it raises some boats much more effectively than others as a necessary compromise. A falling tide will be just as uneven but without a placating excuse. The true power dynamics become undeniable.

Re: This is the most depressing chart in the world

#22

Post by dschiptsov »

Which proves that GDP forecasts especially on a global scale is bullshit.

Continuous growth is another idiotic concept with contradicts with fluctuating, co-evolutionary nature of vastly complex competitive ecosystems (multi-level host-parasite co-evolution).

The difficulty is the same as with forecasting weather in areas with unique microclimates - each tiny valley in Himalaya has its own. One has to monitor its unique conditions to find recurring patterns and constraints.

Global forecasts of wastly complex processes are bullshit and attempts to use avarages is bullshit too.

There are thousands niche microeconomies witchin every region in the wirld, each controlled by its own unique constraints and variables and influenced by some variables of neighborhooring and related niches, etc. There are also climate, sociological, political, cultural factors, etc.

All such complicated models are wrong. They, like myths and religions, have no connection to actual reality while being taken on faith by corresponding sectarians.

Re: This is the most depressing chart in the world

#23

Post by xlayn »

coldtea wrote: post #12

Why should we expect or even want constant growth? Is current level of growth even sustainable? (regarding environment, lifestyle issues --stress, depression, etc.--, quality of production, time for people to adapt to new paradigms, etc)? How about less "growth" and better distribution, more quality, less rat racing?

I would like to add a reference from the article that supports your point of view.

>that lowered forecast eventually prove too aggressive.

As you mention better distribution is key, I would add this could spark more spending and therefore growth.

Re: This is the most depressing chart in the world

#25

Post by wimagguc »

Why did the IMF predict in each and every year that the downturn is over and the economy is going to grow in the next year? Is this perhaps a positive psychology thing?

Or is it only IMF? I've tried to find other predictions, and for example, the World Bank seems to be counting with a less rosy 2.9%: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/world-bank-downgrades-global-eco...

Re: This is the most depressing chart in the world

#26

Post by doki_pen »

coldtea wrote: post #12

Why should we expect or even want constant growth? Is current level of growth even sustainable? (regarding environment, lifestyle issues --stress, depression, etc.--, quality of production, time for people to adapt to new paradigms, etc)? How about less "growth" and better distribution, more quality, less rat racing?

I would expect as more of the world becomes automated and work becomes easier, we would see more economic growth.

Re: This is the most depressing chart in the world

#27

Post by dmm »

coldtea wrote: post #12

Why should we expect or even want constant growth? Is current level of growth even sustainable? (regarding environment, lifestyle issues --stress, depression, etc.--, quality of production, time for people to adapt to new paradigms, etc)? How about less "growth" and better distribution, more quality, less rat racing?

In the absence of growth the only way for an individual to get more resources is to take it from someone else. Life becomes a zero-sum game. This is a qualitative change. The game stops being who can make the most pie to who can take the most.

Re: This is the most depressing chart in the world

#28

Post by saiya-jin »

drjesusphd wrote: post #5
baldfat wrote: post #3

I have very little understanding about economics but I always am scared of large GDP growth because it seems like that is when we go into recession due to bubbles. 1980s led to the recession of the early 1990s. The mid 1990s growth became the 2007-2009 "Great Recession." So this shows growth and it is steady so I don't find this depressing. edited one word

The problem is that slow, steady growth cannot support capitalism. In order to convince investors to risk their money, the economy must promise a more handsome return on their investment. That's why it's "bad news" when the economy "only" grows by 1-2% per year.

so we don't support that much casino-style gaming with prospects of billions... not that depressing outlook. mankind will survive and adapt to much worse things than only 1-2% growth.

Show some child abuse/slavery/deaths-by-US-bombs/born-with-cancer-or-hiv graphs, that's way more depressing than this pathetic... something

Re: This is the most depressing chart in the world

#29

Post by collyw »

dmm wrote: post #27
coldtea wrote: post #12

Why should we expect or even want constant growth? Is current level of growth even sustainable? (regarding environment, lifestyle issues --stress, depression, etc.--, quality of production, time for people to adapt to new paradigms, etc)? How about less "growth" and better distribution, more quality, less rat racing?

In the absence of growth the only way for an individual to get more resources is to take it from someone else. Life becomes a zero-sum game. This is a qualitative change. The game stops being who can make the most pie to who can take the most.

Certain people seem to have more than enough to share around. Instead they seem to concentrate on accumulating more of it by (often by taking it from other people).

Re: This is the most depressing chart in the world

#30

Post by mikebelanger »

dschiptsov wrote: post #22

Which proves that GDP forecasts especially on a global scale is bullshit. Continuous growth is another idiotic concept with contradicts with fluctuating, co-evolutionary nature of vastly complex competitive ecosystems (multi-level host-parasite co-evolution). The difficulty is the same as with forecasting weather in areas with unique microclimates - each tiny valley in Himalaya has its own. One has to monitor its uni…

GDP isn't bullshit, but it doesn't necessarily matter as much as other macroeconomic measures. For instance, some other commenters here have mentioned demographics, our projected carbon footprint, or levels of extreme poverty as being a more important focus.
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