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80 front-end job applications – nearly no one had basic HTML/CSS/A11y skills

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Re: 80 front-end job applications – nearly no one had basic HTML/CSS/A11y skills

#31
post #9

Just use some automated coding test like Codility: https://codility.com/ Even an easy JavaScript programming tasks can filter a lot of applications so you can concentrate on best candidates.

I could not figure out what exactly they are doing and how much it costs. Would you mind clarifying that.

Re: 80 front-end job applications – nearly no one had basic HTML/CSS/A11y skills

#32
post #12

I've used `nav` or `section` for a long time, never found of the difference from `div`. Screen readers? Maybe for `nav`, what about `section` and other 1000 tags with subtle different semantics?

this is all about default CSS values associated with the tag, you can override them as you like which is probably what your relying on.

Re: 80 front-end job applications – nearly no one had basic HTML/CSS/A11y skills

#33

At 80 people it might start being the time to question whether its really everyone else thats unskilled or your approach to evaluation is wrong. Asking a pop quiz of arbitrary tools / techniques that you happen to have remember really isn't a good way to evaluate if someone is a good developer. I am a good developer and I only just remember what clearfix is, I most certainly couldnt explain how it works.

I'd be worried they were asking about clearfix as opposed to flexbox.

Re: 80 front-end job applications – nearly no one had basic HTML/CSS/A11y skills

#34
post #29

At 80 people it might start being the time to question whether its really everyone else thats unskilled or your approach to evaluation is wrong. Asking a pop quiz of arbitrary tools / techniques that you happen to have remember really isn't a good way to evaluate if someone is a good developer. I am a good developer and I only just remember what clearfix is, I most certainly couldnt explain how it works.

Agreed. I understand missing accessibility (either you have ARIA or you don't), but what does "solid markup skills" mean? The differences between many tags is just user agent stylesheet defaults. If I wanted to be extra crazy, I could build a website using alone. Or maybe I am just a bad developer.

It matters for accessibility. Marking up headers as headers, lists as lists, etc. is valuable for people using assistive technology like screen readers.

If this post were phrased as "web developers don't know accessibility" it would be obviously true and uncontroversial. Unfortunately.

Re: 80 front-end job applications – nearly no one had basic HTML/CSS/A11y skills

#35

  Although I only had the chance to review their personal websites or github profiles
and then

  Many are not able to choose the right HTML elements, to explain why and how a clearfix works, or what ARIA roles are for, but they can use React and Angular.
No kidding. They couldn't explain clearfix because you never asked them any questions.

You want to talk about incompetence, and your "application review" consists of browsing the web.

Re: 80 front-end job applications – nearly no one had basic HTML/CSS/A11y skills

#36
post #6

And almost no backend developers can write assembler either! It's almost like we've spent decades layering abstractions on this stuff so we don't have to wrangle it ourselves, isn't it.

There are no useful abstractions that will let you fail to understand how HTML and CSS work.

> There are no useful abstractions that will let you fail to understand how HTML and CSS work

WebGL, WebAssembly, emscripten

Re: 80 front-end job applications – nearly no one had basic HTML/CSS/A11y skills

#38
I would bet good money you're part of the problem. Most devs I know maintain other people's applications and don't get the opportunity to create new HTML or CSS often. It doesn't take long to get up to speed, especially with all the great online resources available. As long as the person understands the concept, give them a chance!

Re: 80 front-end job applications – nearly no one had basic HTML/CSS/A11y skills

#40

The contrarian argument is that this signifies an important truth, that HTML never worked the way it was suppose to. In the same way that we might argue that a misunderstood product is the fault of the designer, not the user, we could argue that developers moving away from HTML is the fault of HTML, not the developers. This has been discussed many times, both here on Hacker News as well as elsewhere. To recap that ar…

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by a "GUI for TCP/IP" yet it seems central to your argument. I didn't realize HTML was ever intended to be anything other than structured information.
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