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Everything You Need to Know About Your Son and Daughter’s University but Don’t

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31–40 of 116 posts

Re: Everything You Need to Know About Your Son and Daughter’s University but Don’t

#31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this, i think, is what he's addressing. if you don't see value in humanities or the arts, i'm afraid you're completely missing the point of being alive. a world run completely by engineers is no place i want to live.

The point of being alive is being forced to spend exorbitant sums of money for the privilege of being talked down to by someone whose entire life is spent in an ivory tower about a subject whose value s/he can't articulate without resorting to esoteric vagaries?

who's holding a gun to your head? a guy who's read and studied source materials for decades knows more about authorial intent or historical context than you; i'd bet he has an understanding worth thinking about and considering.

Re: Everything You Need to Know About Your Son and Daughter’s University but Don’t

#32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With the massive escalation in fees, and the ubiquity of phones, with instant access to Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and more, do you really think things haven't changed?

The children now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise.

I fear that nobody will understand your reference; if only we had taken more humanities classes...

Re: Everything You Need to Know About Your Son and Daughter’s University but Don’t

#33
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this, i think, is what he's addressing. if you don't see value in humanities or the arts, i'm afraid you're completely missing the point of being alive. a world run completely by engineers is no place i want to live.

If you think undergraduate electives are "The Humanities" you're part of the problem you decry.

i attended the university of chicago. my electives were what i wanted; my core was humanities, civ, arts, social sciences, science, language.

i haven't decried any problem. the professor who wrote this piece is a bloviating whiner, but he also happens to be mostly right.

Re: Everything You Need to Know About Your Son and Daughter’s University but Don’t

#34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably another boring humanities elective of dubious merit, being taught by someone whose adult life has been preoccupied with empty navel-gazing.

this, i think, is what he's addressing. if you don't see value in humanities or the arts, i'm afraid you're completely missing the point of being alive. a world run completely by engineers is no place i want to live.

I agree that the humanities and arts are of profound importance. I've found that the problem with these subjects is often simply how they are taught. Philosophy is a great example.

I was one credit shy of a philosophy minor in undergrad. The entire purpose of philosophy is to provide actionable guidelines for how to live life, yet none of my classes actually provided students with this information. Instead, a lecturer would drone on about academicians' opinions on various doctrines, their historical context, and critique each doctrine from a logical perspective without any group discussion or talk of application. Students were then asked to regurgitate the professor's opinions in an essay. It was boring, and eventually I quit.

Imagine if all chemistry classes were just the classroom side of organic chemistry, with people sitting in rooms memorizing syntheses and electron pushing without ever even talking about stepping into a lab. Would anyone be surprised if those students then said they thought chemistry was boring?

Re: Everything You Need to Know About Your Son and Daughter’s University but Don’t

#35
post #9

In all honesty this writer sounds utterly curmudgeonly. He writes passionately about what "real education" is, dispenses some good ol' Hard Facts About Life, and urges us all to put down those dang computer-devices and just learn ! This is classic finger-pointing, angsty whining. I'm sorry, but the conceit here flagrantly disregards modern reality. Learning is easier now than it's ever been. People don't need to give…

I think it is actually moving in the opposite direction. With information so easily available, and so much of it out there being false, professors are today more important.

The days where book publishers vetted material are gone. Being in print is no guarantee of anything. The internet is full of every opinion and crackpot theory on the planet. The unguided student will find whatever information is most convenient at the time. Today more than ever students need to pay attention to someone with the experience to separate junk from the real science.

Re: Everything You Need to Know About Your Son and Daughter’s University but Don’t

#36
I can't count the number of things I learned in college on my fingers because I didn't really learn anything. Nor did I learn good study habits, nor did I cultivate my appreciation of knowledge there.

I did all that after I dropped out of college and the ugliness of the work world drove me to cultivate my inner garden. I am exponentially smarter now than I ever was in school. I am a firm believer in the sentiment behind the phrase "Never let your schooling get in the way of your education."

The author believes in a fiction that never existed. Professors have always had to fight to earn the attention of students, iPhones weren't the only competitors. What's happened is that reality has gotten so naked that even the absurdly idealistic professors have had to acknowledge it. They were the only ones who ever really believed it. I feel like even parents, for awhile now, pay lip service to the value of schooling without actually believing in it.

Education is not, and never was, what academia seems to think it is.

Re: Everything You Need to Know About Your Son and Daughter’s University but Don’t

#37
post #20

The main point which hit home for me was that the students are running the asylum now and there is no respect for the professors or faculty attempting to teach them. From the comments: The key to this article is the explicit statement that administrators are aligned with students against faculty. I work at a major university, and my department head has often sided with students without even contacting me to hear my t…

Seems the main problem here is the high tuition fees, which to some degree give the students the impression that they deserve good service for which they have paid. Coming from a country where most of university is state funded (minus a nominal fee of about 300€ per semester), I can see that I might have had other expectations of my professors had I paid ten thousands of dollars per year.

Additionally, while I do not know in which country you reside, generally countries who fully subsidize higher education have much more stringent requirements to entry, allowing only those who are completely serious about receiving an education access.

In America, if you are willing to pony up the cash, you're pretty much guaranteed a spot. Combine that with the common idea that you will not be able to find a job without a degree and you end up with a lot of people who aren't really in it for an education, but feel like they have to be there anyway.

Re: Everything You Need to Know About Your Son and Daughter’s University but Don’t

#38

Guess what, when you insist on doing only useless work, people start to think your work is useless. Humanities are incredibly important. I'd kill for somebody to help me communicate better at my undergrad, or understand people better, or any deep understanding of politics. Was any of that available? Of course not. There were only boring lessons, full of useless bullshit with professors claiming even objectively false…

I think I know what you are getting at, but there's an important historical dimension.

The humanities are useless, in the sense that they do not fit the current idea of what a University's place in society should be.

Universities used to teach humanities almost to all students, some years even exclusively; not because it was useful in the olden days, but precisely because it was useless. It was a luxury. A university was a place for the upper tiers of society to park their kids until they got their hormones out of their system and were mature enough to assume their new leadership role in society. By studying the humanities, students connected with the past and it elevated their spirits for the future (meaning, they could make lower class people feel stupid for not having read Goethe). Studying latin, greek, literature, ... has largely been irrelevant for centuries, but this did not matter one bit for the students (or their parents paying for it). For them, this was just a time to learn dedication to hard work, sharpen their mind, network, and hopefully not knock-up too many custodian's daughters.

Students who did not follow in their parents situation (factory owners, lawyers, physicians, what have you ...) could end up in Academia, as faculty. It kept them out of trouble, they got paid handsomely, it made for a cute dinner table story when they were rambling about their field trip to Timbuktu. The "set-for-life" (aka tenure, high pay) nature of Academia is the most important give-away that these positions had nothing to do with usefulness, and everything to do with protecting status, about ensuring excess spawn could live comfortable lives and did not embarrass their families. Academia was (is) a different kind of clergy; highly educated, a path to an unencumbered life, but also somewhat irrelevant.

The big shift is not that the humanities have become useless - they've always been. The big shift is that the university has become a vocational school. They have become, what used to be the technical and trade colleges, a replacement for the lifetime learning on the job condensed in a few years for the unwashed masses. In this neo-liberal meritocracy or ours (jk), people are widgets, and they need to be jiggered correctly so they can be slotted in to the correct spot and be useful for society. If you explained 150 years ago to Winthrop that in 2015 farmer Joe would send his kids to Harvard to learn how to operate some new fangled bleepy bloopy thingie (aka programming a computer), he'd think your nuts.

Yes, the infantile mental state of many humanities professors is baffling. I guess they dedicate themselves to their work because they are passionate about the content, yes, reading&thinking is fun! Some may even think they are useful. "I teach my students to think critically"! As if physics professor or your uncle cannot do that. "I teach my students to understand systemic societal problems!" Sure, but your adherence to those shift with the winds of political expedience, your own age and experience, and maybe that movie you once saw. But what they are really doing is that they've taken up the scraps of a role that no longer exists.

IMO, the humanities have a big place in the University - a place for "higher" learning. It elevates us over the day-to-day drab of doing errands and keeping your shoelaces tied, they connect us to some of the most wonderful human achievements of the past. But it is not useful, and has never been so.

Re: Everything You Need to Know About Your Son and Daughter’s University but Don’t

#39
post #29
post #9

In all honesty this writer sounds utterly curmudgeonly. He writes passionately about what "real education" is, dispenses some good ol' Hard Facts About Life, and urges us all to put down those dang computer-devices and just learn ! This is classic finger-pointing, angsty whining. I'm sorry, but the conceit here flagrantly disregards modern reality. Learning is easier now than it's ever been. People don't need to give…

> Kids today can listen with one ear, read with one eye... Do their research with one tab and chat on Facebook with another. Can you code with one tab open to Facebook chat? Because the overwhelming consensus here on HN is that coding requires concentration and lack of interruptions. So does learning. Technology doesn't change the basic biological processes of learning, and the fact is that technology has proven itse…

I can think of at least one university class where the pace was well below what I could handle. In order to prevent myself from getting bored and falling asleep (both figuratively and literally), I regularly took a newspaper to class and read that. Occasionally, I would look up to make sure I was still following the class. Sometimes, having a distraction can actually improve your attention to otherwise boring material.

Clearly, this is not going to apply in all or even most university classes where the level of the material being presented is quite high, but my point is that different things work for different people or even the same person at different times.

Re: Everything You Need to Know About Your Son and Daughter’s University but Don’t

#40
This essay is absolutely correct in all things. I didn't finish college and, even though I've been highly successful, it was later in life that I noticed things that were missing. Things that would have made other things easier and, especially now, made life a little easier.

Those "things" are probably different for everyone but, for me, I wish I had them from the beginning.

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