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How the World's Most Difficult Bouldering Problems Get Made

outsideonline.com

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Re: How the World's Most Difficult Bouldering Problems Get Made

#31

Post by peterwwillis »

gamegoblin wrote: post #24
peterwwillis wrote: post #19

The one annoying thing to me about route setting is there's seemingly no science to it (or at least I didn't get that from the article). I may climb a V5 at one gym, but not be able to crack a V3 at another. It would be nice to know if i'm really progressing or if Router Setter Bob just keeps labeling a V3 as a V5.

Startup idea: Make special climbing holds with RFID scanners in them. These are your starting holds and your finishing holds. Sell wristbands or something with RFID tags in them. RFID tag is coded to a climber. Upon starting a route, the start hold scans your chip, and upon finishing (if you finish) it gets scanned. Now you can use an Elo rating algorithm (think chess ratings, or various video games use it now, too)…

Or, you know, just have people scan the QR code of routes they finish.

Re: How the World's Most Difficult Bouldering Problems Get Made

#33

Post by cabinpark »

DarkTree wrote: post #6
caiobegotti wrote: post #3

"But the setters are the wizards who really run the show. They are to a climbing wall what coders are to a video game, the geeks who keep you up all night obsessing over that winning sequence" This analogy with coders is pretty sweet. I really miss indoor climbing and bouldering, such fantastic mental exercises (which ironically relax you quite a bit even though your whole body aches) after a long day of work in fron…

Yeah I'd also be surprised if many programmers weren't climbers as well. Those two activities are basically my favorite two things to do, and I believe they complement each other very well. Much like programming, it gets harder the better you get at it.

When I was at Waterloo almost everyone I knew at the climbing gym was some combination of engineering, physics, mathematics, and computer science.

This doesn't surprise me since bouldering problems, as discussed here, are puzzles, akin to programming puzzles, where the solution is often some clever trick that, once known, makes a problem easy.

Re: How the World's Most Difficult Bouldering Problems Get Made

#34

Post by gamegoblin »

peterwwillis wrote: post #31
gamegoblin wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Startup idea: Make special climbing holds with RFID scanners in them. These are your starting holds and your finishing holds. Sell wristbands or something with RFID tags in them. RFID tag is coded to a climber. Upon starting a route, the start hold scans your chip, and upon finishing (if you finish) it gets scanned. Now you can use an Elo rating algorithm (think chess ratings, or various video games use it now, too)…

Or, you know, just have people scan the QR code of routes they finish.

That would be the poor man's solution, but:

* A lot of people don't carry their phone around with them in the gym.

* Added friction. My favorite thing about bouldering (as opposed to top roping or something) is that I can just hop on and off the wall without any setup.

* Doesn't measure failures (unless people manually input them, which is adding friction on top of the annoyance of not finishing the route).

Re: How the World's Most Difficult Bouldering Problems Get Made

#35

Post by nathancahill »

protomyth wrote: post #32

Since this seams like the right crowd / article, are Climbing Wall Treadmills worth the money and do they allow for setting the holds? Asking for a community college environment.

Yes, they allow setting holds. Can't say if they are worth the money though. I've climbed on a demo and didn't particularly enjoy it. It's better suited for people working on endurance (you can climb vertically for hours) instead of technical ability.

Re: How the World's Most Difficult Bouldering Problems Get Made

#36

Post by jlittel »

djb_hackernews wrote: post #17

When did the setter worship start? The gym I go to, Brooklyn boulders in somerville ma, has pictures of the setters and little bios hanging on the walls... for sure it is a creative process but give someone a bucket of holds and an hour and you'll have something that is fun. A gym I used to go to used to let pretty much anyone set, just had to ask. I think this explains the rating "deflation" where there aren't reall…

Brooklyn Boulders will at times feature photos of many of it's employees, so not sure it's just a cult of route setters.

Re: How the World's Most Difficult Bouldering Problems Get Made

#37

Post by beering »

etrautmann wrote: post #22

At one point a few years ago when Max was setting routes in Boston, he was free-soloing a 14d at Rumney (one of the harder climbs in the world, without a rope, probably 40-50' tall), and fell on the last move of the climb. He broke both his legs but survived, and later went on to make it through to the finals of a bouldering competition with boots on both legs. Unbelievable natural talent - I've seen him out at Dogpa…

Max's accident was described in the article. Or did the article get it wrong?

Re: How the World's Most Difficult Bouldering Problems Get Made

#38

Post by peterwwillis »

gamegoblin wrote: post #34
peterwwillis wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, you know, just have people scan the QR code of routes they finish.

That would be the poor man's solution, but: * A lot of people don't carry their phone around with them in the gym. * Added friction. My favorite thing about bouldering (as opposed to top roping or something) is that I can just hop on and off the wall without any setup. * Doesn't measure failures (unless people manually input them, which is adding friction on top of the annoyance of not finishing the route).

Many gyms already have QR codes on their routes and several climbing sites accept them as part of entering your routes and discussing them. But if you want to build a custom piece of hardware and manufacture it, convince people and gyms to buy it and maintain it and then convince an existing site or service to support it, good luck to ya

Re: How the World's Most Difficult Bouldering Problems Get Made

#39

Post by dmurdoch »

rryan wrote: post #28
djb_hackernews wrote: post #17

When did the setter worship start? The gym I go to, Brooklyn boulders in somerville ma, has pictures of the setters and little bios hanging on the walls... for sure it is a creative process but give someone a bucket of holds and an hour and you'll have something that is fun. A gym I used to go to used to let pretty much anyone set, just had to ask. I think this explains the rating "deflation" where there aren't reall…

Hm, odd that you mention V0 as an example of deflation because at most gyms I've been to V0 is an example of grade /inflation/. In the Hueco V-scale, V0 is supposed to be equivalent to 5.10 in the Yosemite Decimal System. But not a single gym I've been to sets V0s that are as hard as 5.10. Some gyms introduce a "VB" grade for beginners but their V0 is typically not as hard as the 5.10 they set on ropes. I've always c…

I've experienced what both of you are saying. Some gyms I go to have exclusively hard stuff that is accurately related in relation to outdoors, and then others have had crazy inflated rates. I find mainly lead routes inflated though. I don't think any 12a 5.12a I've lead inside was really a 12a.

Re: How the World's Most Difficult Bouldering Problems Get Made

#40

Post by dmurdoch »

nathancahill wrote: post #26
djb_hackernews wrote: post #17

When did the setter worship start? The gym I go to, Brooklyn boulders in somerville ma, has pictures of the setters and little bios hanging on the walls... for sure it is a creative process but give someone a bucket of holds and an hour and you'll have something that is fun. A gym I used to go to used to let pretty much anyone set, just had to ask. I think this explains the rating "deflation" where there aren't reall…

I've climbed on well set routes and poorly set routes. At higher grades, good setting makes all the difference between an enjoyable, hard challenge and something I never want to try again. I like the recent trend at most gyms to let members rate routes on a 5-star scale. You start to recognize good setters and climb their routes first. I wouldn't call it "setter worship", but good setting is something I can appreciat…

I really like the rating idea, any idea if people just rate the setters they like really well? I go to a smallish gym and all the regulars know all the setters so this probably wouldn't work for us.
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