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How the World's Most Difficult Bouldering Problems Get Made

outsideonline.com

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Re: How the World's Most Difficult Bouldering Problems Get Made

#21

Post by wutwatt »

It was really fun watching climbers figure out the 360 degree campus move described in the article.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69YVimEOX3I

Problem 4 starts somewhere around 2:07:00.

Adam Ondra skipped the 360 by starting with arms crossed, somewhere around 2:28:??. I don't think he was the only one doing that, just the one I remember. These contests show amazing ingenuity by both the setters and the climbers.

Bouldering should be in the Olympics in 2020. As an occasional boulderer happy with the sport's current reach and feel, I'm not sure how I feel about that... it'll sure be fun to watch though.

Re: How the World's Most Difficult Bouldering Problems Get Made

#22

Post by etrautmann »

At one point a few years ago when Max was setting routes in Boston, he was free-soloing a 14d at Rumney (one of the harder climbs in the world, without a rope, probably 40-50' tall), and fell on the last move of the climb. He broke both his legs but survived, and later went on to make it through to the finals of a bouldering competition with boots on both legs.

Unbelievable natural talent - I've seen him out at Dogpatch in SF easily climbing v11's.

Re: How the World's Most Difficult Bouldering Problems Get Made

#23

Post by etrautmann »

wutwatt wrote: post #21

It was really fun watching climbers figure out the 360 degree campus move described in the article. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69YVimEOX3I Problem 4 starts somewhere around 2:07:00. Adam Ondra skipped the 360 by starting with arms crossed, somewhere around 2:28:??. I don't think he was the only one doing that, just the one I remember. These contests show amazing ingenuity by both the setters and the climbers. Bo…

Thanks!

Nathanial Coleman at 2:12:40 (in article) is unbelievable.

Re: How the World's Most Difficult Bouldering Problems Get Made

#24

Post by gamegoblin »

peterwwillis wrote: post #19

The one annoying thing to me about route setting is there's seemingly no science to it (or at least I didn't get that from the article). I may climb a V5 at one gym, but not be able to crack a V3 at another. It would be nice to know if i'm really progressing or if Router Setter Bob just keeps labeling a V3 as a V5.

Startup idea:

Make special climbing holds with RFID scanners in them. These are your starting holds and your finishing holds.

Sell wristbands or something with RFID tags in them. RFID tag is coded to a climber. Upon starting a route, the start hold scans your chip, and upon finishing (if you finish) it gets scanned.

Now you can use an Elo rating algorithm (think chess ratings, or various video games use it now, too) to rate both routes and climbers in a statistically objective way. If there is any intermixing of climbers among gyms who both have this system, you get cross-gym normalization for free.

Finishing a route counts as the climber "defeating" the route. Likewise, failing a route counts as a route "defeating" the climber. This suffices to create a rating, even though the matchmaking graph is bipartite (e.g. there is no way to have two climbers play each other or two routes play each other).

Re: How the World's Most Difficult Bouldering Problems Get Made

#25

Post by famousactress »

djb_hackernews wrote: post #17

When did the setter worship start? The gym I go to, Brooklyn boulders in somerville ma, has pictures of the setters and little bios hanging on the walls... for sure it is a creative process but give someone a bucket of holds and an hour and you'll have something that is fun. A gym I used to go to used to let pretty much anyone set, just had to ask. I think this explains the rating "deflation" where there aren't reall…

I think the importance of the setter isn't as interesting until V3/V4 and above. V0 is a ladder with a couple missing rungs, no one's forgetting how to set those. I also don't think there's pressure to be a "hard" setter, it's just very challenging to set really interesting routes in harder grades that are accomplishable and don't have loopholes/workarounds. If anything the pressure is to be really creative and challenging at any grade (realistically above V2 or so).

Re: How the World's Most Difficult Bouldering Problems Get Made

#26

Post by nathancahill »

djb_hackernews wrote: post #17

When did the setter worship start? The gym I go to, Brooklyn boulders in somerville ma, has pictures of the setters and little bios hanging on the walls... for sure it is a creative process but give someone a bucket of holds and an hour and you'll have something that is fun. A gym I used to go to used to let pretty much anyone set, just had to ask. I think this explains the rating "deflation" where there aren't reall…

I've climbed on well set routes and poorly set routes. At higher grades, good setting makes all the difference between an enjoyable, hard challenge and something I never want to try again.

I like the recent trend at most gyms to let members rate routes on a 5-star scale. You start to recognize good setters and climb their routes first. I wouldn't call it "setter worship", but good setting is something I can appreciate.

Re: How the World's Most Difficult Bouldering Problems Get Made

#27

Post by pierrec »

wutwatt wrote: post #21

It was really fun watching climbers figure out the 360 degree campus move described in the article. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69YVimEOX3I Problem 4 starts somewhere around 2:07:00. Adam Ondra skipped the 360 by starting with arms crossed, somewhere around 2:28:??. I don't think he was the only one doing that, just the one I remember. These contests show amazing ingenuity by both the setters and the climbers. Bo…

>Bouldering should be in the Olympics in 2020

Climbing has been shortlisted among other sports that might get added, and the proposition includes lead, speed and bouldering. Whether it will really happen is doubtful (final decision will be announced in August 2016).

I think it would be great, but I should hope that the traditionally festive ambiance of climbing competitions will not get tainted by the ridiculously serious Olympics mindset.

Re: How the World's Most Difficult Bouldering Problems Get Made

#28

Post by rryan »

djb_hackernews wrote: post #17

When did the setter worship start? The gym I go to, Brooklyn boulders in somerville ma, has pictures of the setters and little bios hanging on the walls... for sure it is a creative process but give someone a bucket of holds and an hour and you'll have something that is fun. A gym I used to go to used to let pretty much anyone set, just had to ask. I think this explains the rating "deflation" where there aren't reall…

Hm, odd that you mention V0 as an example of deflation because at most gyms I've been to V0 is an example of grade /inflation/.

In the Hueco V-scale, V0 is supposed to be equivalent to 5.10 in the Yosemite Decimal System. But not a single gym I've been to sets V0s that are as hard as 5.10. Some gyms introduce a "VB" grade for beginners but their V0 is typically not as hard as the 5.10 they set on ropes.

I've always chalked this up (heh) to a need to make an enjoyable "first climb" experience for new climbers (who are typically messing around on boulders to see if they like it before learning to belay). If you start bouldering and can't even do the easiest problem in the gym then it's unlikely you're going to have fun and come back.

Unfortunately this leads to disappointing (and in some cases, dangerous!) first outdoor experiences since you try out a V3 and get absolutely shut down because your gym's whole rating system is biased by 1-3 grades.

Re: How the World's Most Difficult Bouldering Problems Get Made

#29

Post by DarkTree »

etrautmann wrote: post #20
DarkTree wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I'd also be surprised if many programmers weren't climbers as well. Those two activities are basically my favorite two things to do, and I believe they complement each other very well. Much like programming, it gets harder the better you get at it.

in SF and silicon valley, its functionally the millennial generation's golf-equivalent networking sport. An interesting observation is that very few of these climbers ever end up climbing outdoors.

I can see that. I'm on the east coast so I don't have that exposure, but I've seen the demographic of gym climbers change over time. It's a shame though, because outdoor climbing is why I love it. It's more challenging, you are often camping in nature, and it takes you to beautiful scenery almost always.
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