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What are the 10 most harmful jobs?

80000hours.org

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Re: What are the 10 most harmful jobs?

#31
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only factory farming of animals is on there, and given the suffering of the animals involved I think it's a complete no-brainer that it overall does harm.

No it fucking doesn't. It feeds the human race.

If people stop eating meat we would have more food for each person rather than less. See:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10062999.

It's completely wrong to say that anyone would go hungry because we stopped farming meat. The market would easily adjust and provide other foods at a lower cost.

Re: What are the 10 most harmful jobs?

#32
This comments section reads like a bad joke. How many times do Rob and Ben have to cite the overwhelming empirical evidence that 1) factory farming really does harm animals (how does anyone doubt this?), and 2) factory farming is not preventing anyone from starving to death, before someone admits they were wrong?

Re: What are the 10 most harmful jobs?

#33
post #23
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh? By whom, exactly?

Rick Santorum has accused universities of "indoctrination" and "killing religion". http://www.cbsnews.com/news/rick-santorum-left-uses-college-... https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-human-beast/201203/... James Inhofe has written a book about how climate science is supposedly a hoax. http://www.amazon.com/The-Greatest-Hoax-Conspiracy-Threatens... Chris Christie said that a national teachers union deserves a “pu…

> Chris Christie said that a national teachers union deserves a “punch in the face”

To be fair, teachers' unions do tend to cause a desire for percussive maintenance. In my own (admittedly anecdotal) observation, said unions tend to be run by - and thus prioritize - tenured teachers over all other factors (including actual approval from students, parents, other faculty, etc., and also including test results, passing rates, etc.). This results in skilled, fresh talent to be the first for consideration when schools need to cut back on teacher employment, rather than the arguably better alternative of encouraging some of the more tenured teachers to retire. This isn't to mention that said unions tend to impose dues regardless of whether or not one is a member, and that said unions frequently take political stances that the dues-payers may or may not agree with.

This isn't to say that the concept of a teachers' union in and of itself is a bad idea - far from it. Rather, in their contemporary form, they seem to be getting more in the way of education (by favoring tenured and perhaps out-of-touch educators over younger, fresher educators with more modern foundations; also, by favoring said tenured and more expensive teachers over younger, less expensive teachers, thus contributing to higher class sizes and thus a degradation of educational quality for students) than they are helping education.

Granted, I'm not really involved in the inner workings of teachers' unions, and my experience is limited to both what I saw as a student and what I continue to see among friends who got into teaching, so maybe these tendencies aren't universal.

Re: What are the 10 most harmful jobs?

#34
post #6

This wasn't a bad list. However, one factor I'd consider is the individual role's role and options. For instance, I've read (I think it was in "Fast food nation") that factory farms in the US are often staffed by people who are not legally permitted to work or reside in the US and who are at constant risk. They generally don't have much education or options, and have no recourse if they are mistreated on the job or d…

Do you think you suffer when you click on an ad you think is relevant to you? I don't think internet ads do me much harm, especially well targeted ones I want to click on.

> I don't think internet ads do me much harm

If you don't consider the absence of your own (or your loved ones') privacy as "harm", then perhaps the job of inducing such an absence of privacy wouldn't be considered "harmful" by your standards. By my standards, however, that is considered "harmful" - maybe not physically, but certainly psychologically.

Do you not consider the eating of a Big Mac harmful for the eater just because the eater felt said Big Mac to be relevant to him/her?

Re: What are the 10 most harmful jobs?

#35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do plants not die? Saying that people are causing death without clearly qualifying that its farm animals is childish. The environmental issue is legitimate, but they treated it as an afterthought. It also brings up issues of personal liberty and how much we know about vegetarianism's health effects. And yes, people in the third world eat very little meat. But, you know what? I bet a lot of them want to eat meat. Reme…

The relevant difference is that animals feel pain but plants don't, because they don't have nervous systems.

Do mosquitoes feel pain when you swat them?

Not to say that I disagree with the notion that factory farming is cruel and unnecessary (I did quite a bit of ranching duties in my childhood, all of which were open-pasture). Rather, there's a point where a given human will consider it "cruel" to inflict pain or death upon another living being, and said point is a very subjective one.

I personally draw that line somewhere between the raising of livestock as food and the continuous torture of said livestock as practiced in many larger livestock facilities; that's because I recognize that humans are naturally omnivorous apex predators, and don't subscribe to the belief that there's something fundamentally different between myself eating a cow and my dog eating a cow. Others may draw that line as "vegetarian, but I'll swat a mosquito that's biting me and I might try eating bugs". Still others might even let that mosquito suck freely. Regardless, the position of said point on the scale between "I don't even kill plants; like, everything has a soul, brah" and "HAHAHAHAHA MURDER EVERYTHING! ENDLESS SLAUGHTER! BURN THE EARTH! BURN THE SKIES! SATAN/GARGAMEL 2016! HAHAHAHAHAHAA!" is very subjective, as are the notions of "good" and "evil" that tend to influence such a placement.

Re: What are the 10 most harmful jobs?

#36
I was really hoping this would be something about jobs that are occupationally-hazardous, rather than an opinion piece judging various careers based on subjective notions of "good" and "bad" without any real qualification. Not that the points are wrong, but the authors could have delved further into why those careers are immoral ones to have.

Also.

> [raising animals for food] involves killing, which is both painful and perhaps immoral in itself.

Not if done properly. There are numerous ways to kill an animal painlessly and quickly; the most high-tech I've personally seen is the use of a high-voltage electric current through the cranium of an animal (usually when working with cows), which pretty much immediately shuts down the brain and any consciousness the animal might have. Sedation/anaesthesia also helps significantly. Smaller livestock can be decapitated (which, while likely not painless per se, is quick if done properly) or a probe can be jammed into the cranium to "stir" the brain and quickly shut it down (this is something you may have very well experienced firsthand in your run-of-the-mill frog dissection from grade school).

I personally disagree with the immorality (humans are naturally predators; I don't judge my dog for eating meat, nor do I judge some guy walking down the street with a bucket of fried chicken), but I realize that not everyone feels the same, and I do agree with the immorality of factory farming.

Re: What are the 10 most harmful jobs?

#37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The plants dying point is somewhat irrelevant in this context as 80,000 Hours's philosophy stems from Peter Singer's brand of utilitarian ethics that interpret suffering as it relates to experience, or consciousness.

What a wonderful sentence. You can keep concocting winding philosophical sentences like that to defend the dignity of chickens, and the rest of us will keep trying feed people.

I only made a clarification, not a stance on the matter.

Re: What are the 10 most harmful jobs?

#38
post #6

This wasn't a bad list. However, one factor I'd consider is the individual role's role and options. For instance, I've read (I think it was in "Fast food nation") that factory farms in the US are often staffed by people who are not legally permitted to work or reside in the US and who are at constant risk. They generally don't have much education or options, and have no recourse if they are mistreated on the job or d…

Do you think you suffer when you click on an ad you think is relevant to you? I don't think internet ads do me much harm, especially well targeted ones I want to click on.

Have you considered that a targetted add is much weaker signal than a non-targetted one? A non-targetted add is presumably more costly, thus signifying higher confidence of the maker in the value of the product.

Re: What are the 10 most harmful jobs?

#39
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only factory farming of animals is on there, and given the suffering of the animals involved I think it's a complete no-brainer that it overall does harm.

No it fucking doesn't. It feeds the human race.

Exactly! If you don't see the political agenda behind this one, you are blind. But I was doomed to be down voted when I made the comment above anyways given the demographics on hackernews.
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