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This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

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Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#291

Post by ZenoArrow »

gnaritas wrote: post #165
ZenoArrow wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, so that's what women should do, then what should men do?

Obviously, not be total jerks like that guy and grope women you don't know. I'm not blaming her at all, don't mean to imply that. He was in the wrong.

Sure, I didn't think you were blaming her, but I do think the issues go deeper.

Think about it from the perspective of the groper. He perhaps doesn't understand why the action was uncalled for, in his mind he was just being 'friendly' or 'flirty', a little forward but nothing more. How is there this disconnect between these mostly harmless intentions and the inappropriate actions that followed? Certainly a level of ignorance and/or lack of emotional intelligence is at play. So as men, what can we do to help change this?

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#292

Post by aaren »

stefan_kendall wrote: post #96
aetherson wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. The guys she's writing about need to not: * Hug people they've never met. * Put their hands on people's legs seconds after meeting them. * Put everything a particular woman says into the frame of "Women don't do X." * Assume that women who attend tech meetups are exclusively there as the girlfriends of the men present.

Immediately becoming physical is a valid showing of sexual interest. If she wasn't interested, she should have stopped it immediately. I've had it go both ways and end in sex, although never in a professional setting.

I disagree with you.

If she wasn't interested, she should have stopped it immediately. - what if she didn't stop it but still wasn't interested? Where does that leave her then?

You have to assume 'this is probably not ok, unless it is communicated to me otherwise', not 'there are no objections, I'm carrying on'.

The only response that she could have made to encourage his behaviour would have been one of enthusiastic consent.

You might have had a positive outcome from this technique, but that doesn't make it right. I can't comment on your experiences but, in general, the fact that an interaction ended in sex does not mean that that interaction was consensual.

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#293

Post by mercer »

sliverstorm wrote: post #175
mercer wrote: post #71

This sounds absolutely horrible, but it raises a questions. I'm a guy, and I tend to be quite aware of things happening around me. If I were to notice things unfold as described in this post... Assuming I'm not in charge: is it preferable that I somehow try to play a role in this, or would this only make everything more complicated/awkward. Should I stay back and just be pissed off? What would be the best way to appr…

If you are worried about causing a scene, butt in about something else. Hey , I heard somebody say you like ! I'm a huge fan too! If he's resistant to your interruption, be more forceful in trying to engage him. Maybe sit down next to him. Worst-case he becomes aggressive towards you, but so long as you stay bright & friendly, everyone else will see him picking the fight. That way you can try to defuse the situation…

Excellent advice. Thanks.

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#294

Post by BlackDeath3 »

DanBC wrote: post #288
BlackDeath3 wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, people love a good disagreement, don't they? Do I think that people should learn self-defense because they could be victims of violent crime? That's one reason to do so, yes. As women tend to be a particularly vulnerable subset of "people", this applies to them in particular. What does it matter if this scenario was not that of a particular type of violent crime? I don't see where you're going with the mugging…

Some people, and I'm obviously one of them, think that a flag is raised when someone mentions things like self defence or other victim behaviours before condemning the attacker. Whether you like that or not you need to be aware of it because you will meet people who are very much less civil than I am if you discuss this.

You don't need to warn me that people can be unkind when they get riled up in argumentation. I'm well aware of that (and in fact you've already demonstrated it).

And frankly, I don't really care if you think there is something wrong with me because I've focused on precaution and mitigation strategies on the part of the victim. I see no purpose in condemnation here. I'd rather focus on giving advice to the (hopefully) more rational of the parties involved in the situation.

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#295

Post by acdha »

Crito wrote: post #223
acdha wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm pretty sure everyone younger than 30 is well aware that such things aren't acceptable This is a severely optimistic take. There is a generational aspect but the main problem is lack of respect and empathy and those follow no generational boundary.

I would identify lack of respect and empathy as the primary source of the problem, rather than lack of education. The issue is less "some people under 30 do not know that treating others that way is not acceptable" and more "some people under 30 _do not care_ that treating others that way is not acceptable" I mean, technically I suppose the empathy and respect may be something that you can teach, and if those are lac…

I think we need cultural changes: teaching that is hard enough but almost impossible when some people provide an excuse shield anytime someone is called out on boorish behavior. This can't be an only in school kind of message - you have to see it actually practiced on a broad scale.

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#296

Post by NateDad »

selmnoo wrote: post #280
DanBC wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you at least agree that he was in the vacinity of other people and they also had a responsibility to fix the problem?

Honestly? It's unclear. The rules here are soooo murky, and so very dependent on so many things that there's really no telling. Some girls are simply okay with it -- hell, they even like it when some guys do this. Note, that's some girls. It all depends on things like context, culture (of the place, company, country, etc.), situation, history, the persons involved, the social standing of the persons involved, the phy…

Wow, no, 1000 times no. You are officially part of the problem.

Saying this is a murky situation, saying some girls like it (I don't care if you qualified it as "some" girls)... not ok. The only time it's ok is if you know the woman and know she's ok with it. It's NEVER ok when it's a stranger.

Yes, someone else should have spoken up about it and said "Hey, dude, WTF are you doing? Leave her alone." The fact that no one did, when it was probably pretty obvious she didn't know the guy, is part of the problem.

Yes, she should try to make it clear she's not interested, but it also shouldn't be her responsibility to make sure she's not sexually harassed. Just like it's not my responsibility to make sure I'm not mugged. A tech meetup is not a place where you should have to worry about that sort of thing.

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#297

Post by xamebax »

NateDad wrote: post #296
selmnoo wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly? It's unclear. The rules here are soooo murky, and so very dependent on so many things that there's really no telling. Some girls are simply okay with it -- hell, they even like it when some guys do this. Note, that's some girls. It all depends on things like context, culture (of the place, company, country, etc.), situation, history, the persons involved, the social standing of the persons involved, the phy…

Wow, no, 1000 times no. You are officially part of the problem. Saying this is a murky situation, saying some girls like it (I don't care if you qualified it as "some" girls)... not ok. The only time it's ok is if you know the woman and know she's ok with it. It's NEVER ok when it's a stranger. Yes, someone else should have spoken up about it and said "Hey, dude, WTF are you doing? Leave her alone." The fact that no…

Yes, thank you for that comment. It's been a discussion for so many years, there are always the same arguments used by the same sort of not nice people who never seem to understand that women are not responsible for what is being done to them by creeps, rapists, assaulters and other bad, bad folk.

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#298

Post by pstack »

pstack wrote: post #242
hbags wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You owe Merritt an apology No way. Meritt clearly attempted to shame her for writing about something that, for whatever reason, she didn't confront immediately. He's a censor. He's shaming her for protesting outside his designated free-speech zone. Fuck him.

Repeating your accusations doesn't make them true. Knock your vile rhetoric and bullying off for five seconds and quote, for all of us, the specific sentence or more from Merritt's comment where he shamed the author, implied or supported censoring her, or said that she should not be able to post about her experience. It is a simple request. I'm not asking you to irrefutably prove your ability to bend spoons with your…

So. Nothing. Exactly as I thought.

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#299

Post by rosser »

wtbob wrote: post #257
zeidrich wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that the point is less to change it than to report on the fact that it's (still) happening. If she just told him off and he avoided her for the rest of the night, but otherwise she still felt as isolated and ogled, how would that change things? If she picked up a megaphone and shouted about how she needed to be treated with more respect, would she be? Or would everyone just think she was looking for attention…

> The thing is, it's not her responsibility to fix it. It is her responsibility to fix the things which immediately concern her. This guy's a creep; he was in her vicinity; it was her responsibility to fix the problem he presented.

Uh, no; it's his responsibility not to be a creep.

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#300

Post by gbags »

Crito wrote: post #276
hbags wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You owe Merritt an apology No way. Meritt clearly attempted to shame her for writing about something that, for whatever reason, she didn't confront immediately. He's a censor. He's shaming her for protesting outside his designated free-speech zone. Fuck him.

[OT] > about: hell-banned by bigoted assholes I don't see any evidence of you being hellbanned^. Furthermore, hellbanning is (typically, at least) an automated process. It is done by an algorithm that evaluates the quality of your posts using their score as the metric of quality. At the time that I am writing this, this seems to be your only post in this thread that has been voted into the negatives. ^ I have showdea…

p.s. it's really funny that the bigot brigade is full of people who are such assholes that they'll even attempt to discredit the idea that a ban happened.

You really, really need to get a life.

Really.

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